Does anyone no how INGODDS ALBERTS bitework? - Page 7

I recorded Albert’s “insufficient” performance at the 2007 NASS on video and it seemed to me, as Preston said, he saw no real threat from the helper and appeared injured in the mouth area. What I thought was interesting though was he never let the helper get between him and the handler and he always stood his ground to the end. This type of “insufficient” to me is what I call “a good miss”. The “insufficient” that disturbs me is when the dog is run off the field leaving the handler completely exposed to the threat. This was definitely not the case with Albert. Unfortunately, there is no distinction in the rating system of this behavior when an “insufficient” occurs so we are all left to wonder, unless you were there of course.

susie: The behavior of males like Ingodds Albert out of the Ghandi - Ursus line is difficult to explain.Raised and ( properly ) trained from ONE person, you get a strong and hard working male that is willing to die for you. Left alone, it may fail, and everybody wonders why.

These dogs only live for there handler, they DON´T like other males or any other people, most people call them NOT SOCIAL, but handled with care, you get the best dog you ever had in your life.

Preston, you stated about "Albert":  ":

 He is very calm, easy going and seems to see no real threat from the helper(agitator) in the bitework.  He can and will do it when asked to but seems to see no reason for it.  He is definitely not a sleeve eater.  From what I have heard, he is a most potent home protector when there is a real reason to defend his turf, as are most of his progeny. 

From what I saw in that video, this dog can barely protect himself, he would be almost useless as a true home protector except for maybe barking and putting on a show.   He sees no threat from the decoy because he is working in "prey" as most of the show line dogs do at these events do.  He did however see a threat from the decoy during the stick hits and showed his reaction - to come off the sleeve.  Dogs like this don't have the nerve or strength of character to truly confront a "bad guy" with bad intent.  That is ok, because Albert is purely a Show dog and will never be called upon to do more than that.  He is doing exactly what he was bred to do.  A dog like this would never make it as a PPD or a Police K9. 

He is a beautiful dog, but lacks true fighting drive and should not have gone VA8.    Preston, I don't know where you get the idea that he would defend his turf as you say, I seriously doubt it.   I'm sure he produces beatiful pups that make nice pets, but they would not be a choice for a dog that I wanted to SchH with.  There are better V rated males with stronger temperments to choose a puppy from if someone wanted to work a showline dog. 

JMO FWIW,

Jim

Dear Louise,

Out of my experience there is a high percentage of MALES out of Ghandi and Yasko that behave like I tried to describe, of course NOT every male and as far as I know almost NO female.

Larus is an interesting point - this male and his sons don´t fit into the Ursus theorie at all. Breeding is a funny thing, you never know what you get...

but believe me, I handled a lot of males out of these stud dogs - just my impressions.

Regards

Strange for such a prominent dog to be sold off for the meger price albert commanded if he was such a prize. I have one of his off spring and am new to schutzhund yet in one year I have learned that most dogs like albert are strictly for show and not the work. The money in show is to lucrative and easy so it attracts inferior dogs otherwise the germans  would not so easily part from them.The 2500.00 I paid for a pup from an untitled female from albert is a sum to be ashamed of paying so let the buyer beware .  so when one is rudly awakened to the unscruplous breeders and the astronomical prices the demand for inferior animals is imo criminal. and to be judged by usa judges only makes the comedy  criminal!

Whoever told you that is filling you full of bullcrap Raymond. The GSD is the product of a hundred years of breeding by the top breeders in the world. You just have to trust in that and do the best you can. Dedicate yourself to that dog as if it will be the last dog you will ever own on this earth and don’t listen to anyone that tells you there is something wrong with him. Every GSD has the capability to work and it is up to you to develop a working relationship with that dog and bring it out of him. And believe me, your dog knows you’re not happy with him and it is only making it worse. Since you’re new to the sport allow yourself a learning curve and don’t expect perfection. It may take you longer to finish that dog but I promise you, if you dedicate yourself to that dog you will be amazed how much working abilities are buried deep within him.

I'm a nobody in the schutzhund world, or the AKC world, or the German Show ring world....however, I do know a dog that's a wuss when I see one....and this dog....is a wuss.  He's monstrous, he's klutzy, he's SLOW, and I personally see nothing beautiful about him, physically or in the work.

His barking isn't even half hearted...its like, quarter hearted.  I do think part of it is him not being into it, but the other part is genetic.  Even if I give the dog the benefit of the doubt having a mouth infection, I'd still wager that he'd come off the bite with stick hits.  His approach to the sleeve was slow, the helper shoved it in his mouth, and I'm pretty sure his longbite would be abysmal (somebody find me a vid of him doing a long bite and prove me wrong).

maywood, you said "every gsd has the capability to work". that is simply not true. If you believe that you are part of the problem why the highlines in general do not work well.

I disagree with the above....every dog has the capability to work....not every dog has the capability to work well.  That's where most dogs fall short I would think...not working, but working well.

But it is true. You just have to trust in the dog’s breeding is all. In general, the only problem with the showlines is they require a more patient form of training but all of them have the potential to work. IMO most of the schutzhund trainers I have watched trying to work a showline dog from scratch simply don’t have the patience to work with them. This is probably because they are somewhat “spoiled” by working with the high-drive workingline dogs for the most of their careers and are simply lost when they have to work showline dogs that initially have a lesser drive to work with. I won’t deny it is harder and takes longer to get a showline dog going to do the work but if you are patient and trust in them enough they will exceed your wildest dreams. And the end result is a dog that isn’t obsessively addicted to some toy and truly loves to do the work.

I am in no way holding myself out to be some kind of an expert either as I am still learning daily with my own dogs but this is something I have discovered after owning both types for some time now. It seems to me, the showline dogs require more of a commitment from the owner and don’t lend themselves well being worked by someone else. They work best when the human bond is left intact.