future of policedogs - Page 6

blade, there is difference between personal preference, general ideas and real world situations, as im testing tons of dogs, i find that there are big dogs that are agile, small dogs that are not, big dogs with stamina, smaller dogs without, athletic dogs with environmental issues, heavvy dogs without

, so what im saying is that al these things depend on the individual dog in front of you

secondly, the old style borderpatrol dogs, where not bred and selected to work places like central station new york, do buildingsearches in tower flats, they were border patrol dogs, often working in rough terrain

nowadays its hard to find a GSD with any of their desirable genetic traits, caracterwise, and the way they looked, as today we are flooded with smaller sized, thin boned, pointy nosed, prey only dogs 

Duke what you describe in the last part is what you were breeding yourself. De vally if I remember correctly mayb the name is incorrect.a male you showed tight coat Athletic looking with a tone of prey drive didn't. Irractic behaviour nice little pup. I even ask was for sale at one stage. Because that is what works with the type of makeup if breed correctly is very versatile. If I'm correct that is what law enforcement are looking for a dog that can turn to anything. I also aggree with what you wrote on big full dogs. But Imo that dog in valk picture is out of shape and carries to much bad weight to do most jobs

blade, I breed dogs for policework in our breedingprogram, that have desired qualities for policework today, im not breeding dogs for borderpatrol, but I use dogs with old blood/lines to keep some of those qualities in the dogs, which is way different than modern sport lines what I am referring to

 

furthermore i think its hard or even impossible to determine muscle and stamina from a picture of a thick coated GSD

bladeedge
here is his full sister. she is less fluffy. will you continue to insist that her structure (chest, shoulders, hip, neck) as she are appeared is because of fat?

to your question about jumping potential... i don't know. i haven't met and test that dog. my dogs, albeit was bigger and heavier did 2 meter vertical wall with no issues. and not only my dogs. 2 m wall was mandatory. what i see today is that for some reason vertical wall been replaced by "A" frame. my guess it done because majority of those present day lean dogs with weak hips simply can't fulfill previous requirements.
anyway, i don't wan't to repeat myself. there are this topic, in which dog's structural build and its impact on dog's physical performance was touched.

Valk, second picture, I like the head of that dog, the body has no appeal to me personally. She looks like a blub mass, I dont know what other word to use. No separation on her waist, no difference between the waist and chest, just one big mass, maybe its the way she is sitting.
The vertical wall came in because people thought the straight wall was too hard on dogs jumping it and some had a point...If you do it once in a while, sure, if you do it 3 times a week, no thank you.
I do like the color of that dog, but, I am prejudiced, my current puppy is that same color.

Duke that is what I was getting at. It was definitely not a criticism. You breed for a purpose and versatility would be very important. My point is a heavy dog like that one is less apeling for some jobs. A high temperature that dog would over heat quickly stamina would struggle. And so on. I have one I seen the weekness in them but they do have there strengths. I think if you know what to look for in a thick coat dog you can tell a lot about the dogs fitness wellbeing. 😉

Valk good colour strong head. I'm not comfortable commenting on a dog you don't own. I'd say the a frame replaced the wall because it's safer for the dog. After all most of the time it only a trial.

Valk, my point was if you start to place too much value on a certain anatomy instead of the best health and workingability for the job, then it doesn´t matter if the dog has correct structure according to you like. A more moderate size was also what the police/military wanted so I suppose they based that on the functionality for the job. For me it doesn´t matter so much as long as it has no negative effect on the job, if the dog is smaller and stocky or larger and more rangy and between, more concerned with structural details that really has no functional use more than personal taste of beauty. This dog for example is small but very stocky build it seems, but nice overall structure

http://krogstorpskennel.dinstudio.se/page_115.html

https://vimeo.com/231741391

This one also small but not so stocky but has a nice structure for work, also a good producer for the military/policedog-breedingprogram,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QksHXU3CinQ

 

Hired Dog
i think i know what you mean. you see, chest cage isn't one dimensional. volume measured in wide + depth. as you can notice in pictures where those both stand, the chest cage extend in depth way past front legs. when dog with such chest is sitting, you're right, it makes kind of "barrel"y looks :)
but serious advantage is that such chest cage isn't empty. there internal organs, including larger lungs, which provides oxygen supply, which in turn, paired with strong hips, provides stamina during prolonged run and physical activity.
understandable your unacceptance. perhaps one need to have personal experience with such type of dogs to appreciate their efficiency and power. i hope you remember that video with black bitch Jessie? she about same size like this one above. but perhaps you noticed, Dani had hard time to hold her when she pull him toward an agitating helper.

as for jumping exercises - during deployment on the foot patrol the situations to utilize potential of border dogs didn't happen everyday.
nevertheless the dogs intentionally permanently was kept in physical shape artificially. that included cross through obstacles, jumps (including 2m :), climb up and down vertical ladder, run on unstable surface, run on log, nose work, fight. i never heard about any negative for dogs outcome from such practice.

johan77
i got your point clearly and as i responded earlier "i have no objection toward utilization of dog with minor flaws if dog exhibits quality work in execution of desirable tasks". but for this you do not need an exclusively pure bred dog. breed is somewhat more than just this. it must have certain an efficient anatomy for designated purposes and physical, behavioral and mental abilities to comply breed's objectives.
there are breeds whose dogs for many looks ugly but that is type of anatomy which perfectly fit breed's purpose and the dedicated to that breeds ppl, who truly uses that breed for its purpose, do not "beautify" their breed to make them more appearing to wider audience.

johan77 what would be the percentage of true policedogs/armydogs coming from the swedish breedingprogram ?