Does anyone no how INGODDS ALBERTS bitework? - Page 6

Very nice video of Amon.  I always like watching Dennis do helper work too.

Another very nice V rated working male is:  V  Ajax vom Röhnsaler Bach

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/444825.html

What does the discussion of Amon and Ajax have to do with the fact that the bitework of Albert  at the 2008 USA Sieger Show is almost universally acclaimed as "pissy" (oops, guess that applies to Gusto as well)?

Yes Louise, sorry off topic.....  But it does prove there are structurally correct dogs that WILL work.  That's all.....

there are lots and lots of V rated "structurally correct" working-line dogs that work super - nothing to do with this thread....

Louise, Molly, point taken... many V-rated workingline dogs... yada yada yada... OT.

However, this thread was pretty much "done" before it even started with the exception of posting the link to the 2008 SS Bitework video for those who have not already seen it.  Other than that, it's the same song and dance... those who like the dog and the "beautiful black and red teddy bear puppies" that he produces will have a laundry list of explanations as to why the dog is not really a dud. 

Some of these points are valid... not every home is suitable for a well bred high drive hard hitting workingline GSD.  A USA judge once told me, "Show dogs make great pets," and I tend to agree...  Beautiful.  Lower drive.  Not easily aroused.  Much easier to handle.  Etc.

Now as to whether or not the world really needs more expensive pet dogs... well that is definitely a topic for another thread! 

Okay, I spent the day going to look at two true male non-feral gangster dogs in Wisc.  One was a black and red/braune with V potential conformation.  The other was a dark sable, but was gone for trials in Illinois.  The black and red/braun dog was georgeous, very high drive and just itching for any test of his dominance.  I felt that this dog was beyond my capability to deal with or train with in his sch training.  I was told the black sable was even more dominant, a true rocket type sleeve-eater and I trust the source of the information.  These dogs were imported straight from Germany by professional Sch. trainers from Germany.  If I was going to breed my showline bitch I would consider using the black and red/braun dog because of his looks and tremendous confidence and alpha territorial dominance and complete fearlessness. 

My past experience has led me to believe that dogs with such cross breeding when raised and worked with from birth on to bite and pull with a towel and tug leads to more than I want in a puppy when it grows up.  I have had easy going very tough but friendly and calm, protective puppies from such type breeding when they are raised in a relaxed family environment with no agitation training early on and no Sch. training later (only multiple courses of obediance).   I think one can end up with a very sound, stable, correct true working temperament in one's GSD this way, and such a dog will typically be a potent home and family protector when a 24/7 in-home family pet.  Many folks want a good looking GSD pupy with great working temperament and do not want to Sch train their pet who is a 24/7 in-home family pet and protector.  I am one.

Preston- you must not live far from me, I am in IL close to the WI border.  Anytime you want to see a "sleeve eating" showline bitch, you let me know. I bet you'd like the facility I work for as well, neat place.

As far as Albert goes- I have worked with several of his progeny from different mothers. I would be happy to share my opinion privately of the pups I have personally worked with. In fact, I have trained many Mittlewest dogs over the years out of just about all of her stud dogs. I just evaluated a Mittelwest pup out of Yasso who has a great temperament and I can't wait to begin working with her, and had a lesson with an Albert son just this morning.

More years ago than I care to remember, I had a very hard gangster-type GSD bitch. She wasn't afraid of anything and would take on anybody. Very, very smart dog too. Doing schutzhund with her wasn't a possibility at the time because there were no schutzhund clubs in the US (long time ago, huh?)  I was young and could handle such a dog. She was great fun!

But let's face it: Preston is right. Most GSD homes don't want a gangster dog and don't know what to do with one if they get one. That kind of dog is a legal liability in most homes. And Preston was right again (in a thread that has aged off the top page and I am too lazy to look for it) , he was right when he said that most people who want a GSD for a companion want a beautiful dog who is structurally sound and healthy and this does not describe many American showline shepherds these days. These people go to the breeders who sell German showlines that won't be too hard or sharp. And more power to them. I'd like to see the German-type dog take over again in the US, with the showlines getting a little harder and the working lines for those who really can handle a hard dog in police or sport work.

And yes, I know I'm off topic in this thead which started with Albert's bitework or lack thereof. I think like Preston that when a dog who previously could do the work now cannot and he's not old enough to explain it, there's something physically wrong with him. Probably something subtle but something that needs to be investigated by his vet.

Just my 2 cents.

Albert's bite work is shit, but I have to admit most of his progeny that I have seen do bite like the dickens. Albert also doesn't like the heat, he is lazy but part of it comes from being locked in a kennel all the time.

The behavior of males like Ingodds Albert out of the Ghandi - Ursus line is difficult to explain.Raised and ( properly ) triained from ONE person, you get a strong and hard working male that is willing to die for you. Left alone, it may fail, and everybody wonders why.

These dogs only live for there handler, they DON´T like other males or any other people, most people call them NOT SOCIAL, but handled with care, you get the best dog you ever had in your life.

Somebody who is not used to dogs like this, should stay away. Without there handler these dogs are lost, unable to work.

When I saw Albert I saw a typical Ghandi son, dog and people aggressiv, left alone without help.

Sorry for the dog - it´s the result of the unknowledge of the people. I won´t even blame them, it´s very difficult to handle a dog like this.

I love them - a LOT of drive -  great temperament - great colors - for the right handler the best choice - but NO pets and no machines...