Feet pics! - Page 4

Rik, my point is that mother nature are the best and most objective judge in selection.
humans too often motivated not by rationality but own personal preferences, which seems more often working against the dogs.
in fact your reference to beginning of the breed and individual dogs at it's roots, pretty colorful shows it.
the differences between them and some of their descendants even way farther, that between them and wolves.

Valk, thank you for not taking my post as offensive.

my point is that the GSD is a developed breed originated with specific goals in mind.

none of those goals involved being a wolf.

the dogs I pointed to were chosen by Capt. VS, not nature.

I really don't know anything else to say concerning the GSD. (or it's feet}

 

Rik

why should i feel to be offended?

you expressed your personal view, that's all. others can agree or disagree but it's not a reason to start heated up emotional exchanges.
i stated earlier, i'm not expert in domain of conformation and modern fashionable trends. in my assessment of the dog's physical appearance
i prefer to compare it to dog's wild cousins, who was selected by mother nature and as result, successfully prospered through millennia.

Valk - it is true that nature is the best genetic selector, and that the feet of the wild canids differ with respect to their habitats and survival needs.

The early pics of the GSD show feet that are small and tight, as this was the type present in the successful working/herding/breeding stock which were used to develop the breed So, why did these foundation dogs have that type of feet? I have shared my opinion on that, and am curious as to what others feel about why the foundation dogs had that type of feet?

@Koots - presumably, since the ancestral herding dogs from which the GSD was developed were mostly actual working dogs (covering miles each day with the flocks), they had the feet which suited their occupation. I don't know why they were not as spread as a wolf's foot. Perhaps because they spent more time walking on the flat fields ?

If the dogs used 'all' had tight feet, it is no surprise that the first dogs in the Stud Book had tight feet, or that VonS and the early SV continued to look for tight feet as part of the emerging GSD Breed.

albeit it's true about survival needs, the habitats of wolves and GSDs predecessors was identical, in same region with same terrain and climate.
as for difference of their feet, i'm sure, the uniformity of feet among shepherd dogs before breed was established, was even lesser than today.
ones, who established breed was just like us - a people, with their own preferences. should not be dismissed that at that time tight feet and no spread toes was seen as more appearing aesthetically, nice looking.

Of course. Worth remembering that the creation of the GSD breed came at that period of time when the whole of Europe was consumed by the competitive elements of developing and showing off distinct breeds of dog, in a way not much seen before; that was fashionable, and the Rittmeister and his mates were no different to others at some levels, I don't suppose ! Yes, the appeal of aesthetic sensibilities comes into it; and fanciers will justify anything they prefer, as functional and natural and necessary. Have we not seen that all through a century+ of the breed, with all the 'types' ?

It's all a bit 'chicken & egg', though - did they find tight feet aesthetically pleasing and look for them / want to justify and reproduce them ? [If so, why, particularly ?] Or were the numbers they were playing with at that time so small, and so many of them actual working dogs, that they mostly arrived with good feet and so it was wanted to keep them, and they were therefore written in to the new Standard ?

As someone else has pointed out ^, if breeders get to the stage where they are satisfied with everything they are producing that they start paying special attention to foot shape, they must be getting near-perfect dogs (for them, anyway).  Somehow I think that was unlikely in the earliest days

of GSD development !

hund, tight feet are aesthetically pleasing. I really doubt it was that different 100 years ago.

as far as limited number of dogs to choose from, without looking it up I think they chose from 5 different lines/types of prevalent dogs at the time and I'm betting that despite the increase in GSD today, there were many more actual herding dogs to chose from then.

anyone really interested in the mother nature aspect should do a search on images of wild canines. there are plenty of wolf with "tight feet". also dingo and African wild dog, also known and documented for very long range travel are almost exclusive "tight" feet.

in arctic regions, all the land based mammals are noted for wide feet. helps them on the snow. same for a lot of mammals that make their living on the desert sands.

anyway, just want to say again, I really like nice, tight feet on these GSD posted in this thread. and I'm willing to bet that any job the GSD can do or ever has been done will not need splayed feet as a prerequisite.

Rik

edit to add after re-reading hund's last post. in many years of doing dogs, I have seen people base breedings on almost any concieveable concept. I have never known any breeding based on feet.

Koots ~ I’ve got a “nice foot thing” too 🤗

Thor’s feet are quite nice! Nice feet IMO are essential in both dogs
 and humans  !! 💅🏻,,,lol 

If my WGWL Damien would sit still long enough I’d post his pretty little paws !! He has good feet, nice quite as nice as my WGSL Prince, but nice all the same !! ,,,,Tight feet are an important detail ! 

Mindhunt~ I’m laughing reading your comment about him picking his nose with one of those toes !! 😂,,,,

Quite, Rik. I don't know that anyone consciously breeds GSDs 'for' tight feet; although I think it a pity when breeders do nothing to bring their lines away from producing long, ugly feet ! Like you, I find tighter feet aesthetically pleasing; but we should all remember that not everything suits everybody. If it did, there would be no competitions, no judges ! What one person (preferably a GSD specialist, so they at least know what they are looking for, and why) sees as their Winner one day, another equally well qualified person might see as their 3rd on another day ! That happens even using the German system, to some extent - which neither your country nor mine burdens itself with.

Just as most Working folk go on about having a flatter back and disparage the sloping topline of showdogs, so I can see no appeal in the Alsatian type, here. But I accept some people do, even if I think they are wrong. If Val thinks a more spread foot is better in terms of territory hunted or worked over, that's her opinion and her right to hold it - but I agree perhaps if she searched a little wider for more Internet pictures of wolves & coyotes, she might find more variation than she has so far !