Is our breed developing Kyphosis? - Page 4

        I just looked at the "Historical VA List"....IMO none of the backs on those dogs look exaggerated...They look strong and well balanced IMO....: )
       

       Compare the NFL players from the 60s or 70s to the players of today...Players have become much larger, stronger and athletically fit in most cases...They sure look different today....It is not necessarily a bad thing....Is it the same thing with the GSD..???...Just asking....: )

Ruger1; Very well said, althought some of these guys are using hormonal aids sometimes chemical or synthetic...your point is BANG ON!!

MODERATION!!!

There is absolutely no doubt that the German Shepherd of today...which ever side of the fence you sit on - is far more athletic and can perform a magnitude of tasks in comparison to the dogs of the 30's and 40's and so on!!!

Much the same as this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men's_100_metres_world_record_progression








 

Resta assured that the entire GSD Population of the world is NOT ADVERTISED/Registered here on database...we must get around to see whats there!!!

MOST WILL BE SURPRISED!!

apoArmani, I beg to differ. Here is a dog from the 1930's in action.  I think our current showline dogs no longer have the athleticism needed to do things like this. They are too big and heavy.

Cant't find the video right now...I am sure you have all seen it done with a German Shepherd RECENTLY...here is and example:

http://www.jokeroo.com/videos/yt/1at4h-israeldogs-2-of-our-dogs-jumping-from-a-helicopter-at-an-israeli-dog-show.html

 

...and the APE used to eat bannanas - but look what he became a few million years later:

http://wn.com/The_dog_vs_helicopter 

Armani, you missed my point. I said the SHOWLINE dogs no longer have the athleticism. Record numbers of them are failing the watered-down protection test being given at the Sieger show:


http://www.vomdomburgerland.nl/koos1.pdf 




 

The editor won't let me add to my above post, but as someone who has studied anthropology, I have to say this.

1) We are not descended from apes, though anthropologists beleive we have common ancestors.
2) Genetically, the chimpanzee is in the same family as we are, but it is a different genus and species: Pan troglodyte s vs. Homo sapiens.

Dogs are therefore MUCH more closely related to wolves than we are to apes. The wolf is Canis lupus lupus. The dog is Canis lupus familiaris.

BTW, here's a pic of a wolf skeleton. You can see how straight the spine is.

Armani, you missed my point. I said the SHOWLINE dogs no longer have the athleticism. Record numbers of them are failing the watered-down protection test being given at the Sieger show:
 

I don't understand this statement.  The tests done at Sieger shows do not test the athleticism of the dog, that is fairly obvious.  I'm not saying show lines aren't without major faults but I can't make a statement about their athleticism based on a short attack out of the blind and a short long bite.  I would probably look to the AD and some form of agility/obstacle course as a test of athleticism.

Also I'm not totally convinced today's show lines are all that big and heavy.  I think many of them LOOK huge in photos.  Often I see a dog's photo and then when I watch him in person I'm like, "oh THAT's him?"  Some of are of course too big but these days I see more working lines that appear to be very substantial (I won't say "heavy" b/c to me that means overweight).  My show line male is 70lbs, correct size.  Before I last weighed him I shared his photo and asked people to guess his weight.  The consistently guessed 10-20lbs extra.  Sure maybe if you've never touched him he LOOKS like he weighs 95 but the dog does agility, flyball, lure coursing, dock diving, and all kinds of stuff that require agility and athleticism.  When I looked for a working line male I specifically said I would take one on the smaller side.  My pick was narrowed down to two and when I mentioned not wanting a larger size I was given the smaller male; the other male weighs 10-15lbs more than mine and they are 10 months.  I got the smallest one in the litter and he's easily going to be a bit taller and weigh more than the show line male.  I don't think we can make this criticism of German show lines in general.  If anything, across the board you have to be more selective if you want a correct medium sized dog.  I just put my show line dog through an obstacle course this past weekend.  My preference is to own dogs I can pick up and carry in an emergency, or at the very least be able to pick up and lift/help each other over obstacles if need be.

I agree Sunsilver, the SL dogs are getting heavier and I don't believe that, together with some of the extreme WGSL construction is more agile than in days gone by, all the evidence is to the contrary.  Much has been reduced and watered down over the years to accomodate progressive reduced ability in the modern GSD IMO.

Of course the dog is made up of a conjunction of anatomy, and balance fore and aft is the key.  But if you go with the standard it does call for a straight back, and that is logical considering that all other herding breeds which call for speed, agility and endurance have a straight back. The GSD is called a trotting dog. If you compare in nature (forget genetic relationship) those animals that need those qualities, wolves, african hunting dogs etc. All have a straight back which suggests to me that nature is dictating form for function.

Wow, that wolf skeleton is interesting, compare that spine which is from an unexaggerated topline. Without the thread turning to it's usual SL vs WL, I think we may have to accept (at least I do) that the modern SL does have an unnatural curve to the spine, which does not contribute to function. Just my opinion.