***British Sieger Schedule*** - Page 4

To test the nonsense of the current entry rules/requirements of the Working Classes, simply go through the Judging process of the Working Class, lets say 20 dogs pass the Courage test and have entered the ring for judging. First you have to place those with NO Koring at the rear, because they can only be awarded SG, and we ALL know an SV judge cannot place an SG in front of a V graded dog. Then the judge must place those entries with SchH1, IPO1 and a Korung in front of the SG group, because they do NOT qualify for a VA (GB) grade, then he places those that have a SchH2, IPO2 or ABOVE, and a Korung, IN THE FRONT group, because these are the only dogs that can be awarded a VA (GB) grade/Title. The initial line up will essentially be THREE GROUPS, the judging almost done by entry requirements.

Then imagine what must be checked by the Judge IF he decides to move one or more up on movement or some other reasons, if he places one of the SG dogs (predetermined by current entry rules) near the front, ALL dogs behind this dog cannot be awarded a V. Then at almost the end of judging, the judge finds out the effect of his placings in respect of the entry rules, particularly regarding those with NO korung, and those with SchH1, IPO1, and then he may consider changes to enable him to award some deserved V grades.

Nobody with any sense is going to enter a dog in the Working Class if the highest grade it can gain is SG. Perhaps that is the same conclusion some on the Working Group came to when formulating the entry requirements.

At the same time WHY raise the SchH/IPO requirements above the minimum required of LEVEL 1 in these working qualifications for eligibility for a VA (GB) title, as clearly worded in the WUSV RESOLUTION 2005.?? This will exclude some females and possibly some males from being considered for a VA (GB) title. Once again, perhaps this is the same conclusion some on the Working Group came to when formulating the entry requirements. We can only speculate.

It appears the previous British Sieger policy of attracting as many entries as possible has been "selectively" abandoned.

Just to add another farcicle scenario, what would happen to the lovely Irish VA and British Siegerin 2007 Antilli Xambi who we believe ( just checked on Antilli website ) is SchH1 - if she was to be entered into the working class, could now only get a V grading, while at the same show last year she was awarded Siegerin ????

C'mon guys this needs seriously sorting, this is a joke !!!

No axe to grind, just common sense isn't it ?

Hi

yes Xambi is schh1, but she obviously has koerung so the highest she could place this year would be V not SG. The GSA Ireland had the foresight to introduce the rules slowly and for the first 2 years Schh1 was sufficient for a VA grading. If the British Sieger working party had done the same the entries would be higher and to publish the rules and requirements only some 8 weeks before the show doesnt give much time to qualify our dogs schh2!!!! However we had no intention of showing Xambi this year, she is double Siegerin and VA, she has nothing to prove, the dogs that we will show in the working class have schh2 and 3 respectively but all our qualifying females, that is 5 females all have schh1 and wont be entered, not because of the VA requirements I would hasten to add but because we dont have time to prepare that many dogs, if the requirements were schh1 we may have entered one of them.

I hope the working party looks very carefully and puts out a statement shortly, it is not to late to make amendments to the rules, 2008 British Sieger needs to be a huge success, please dont let it fail.

There you have it, in bold print,  even people most into German exhibition have no interest in competing in the UK unless VA or top spot is available. Sums up British show scene mentality perfectly, ce la vie.

AS

A Shepherd

please read what I said again

5 females all have schh1 and wont be entered, not because of the VA requirements I would hasten to add but because we dont have time to prepare that many dogs

WE ARE ENTERING 2 MALES...THE 2 WE HAVE BEEN SHOWING ALL YEAR, NO SECRET OR SUPRISE THERE, AND 2 YOUNGSTERS, DO YOU REALLY THINK WE CAN PREPARE MORE DOGS THAN THAT PROPERLY!!

VA is a prestigious title and should not be handed out like sweets, we hope to get a decent V grade with our adults, nothing more nothing less, please dont put words in my mouth. 

 if the requirements were schh1 we may have entered one of them.

'may' being the important word, but in reality working 3 dogs in schutzhund and preparing etc would have been a big commitment.

We at Antilli are looking forward to the British Sieger and will show our support as always but as previously stated by several others the Working party needs to look at their rules and requirements carefully.

The reason there is NO response from the British Sieger Working Group is because their Chairperson is on Holiday and they have agreed NOT to make any Public Comment without the Chairpersons knowledge. I am also led to believe that ALL Public comment are only made by the Chairperson. This is a very understandable and responsible policy and I feel sure the comments on this thread will be carefully considered and assessed by the Group on the Chairpersons return. What happens and how it is communicated is entirely at the discretion of the British Sieger Working Group.

A request for clarification of the Schedule

It is clear that ALL dogs over 2 years of age require a Breed Survey (Item 5 Rules & Regs.)

It is clear that Working Class entrants must have a "minimum of SchH1/VPG1/IPO1 to gain a V (Excellent)
BUT those without SV  Korung can only achieve the max. grade of SG

When I read the final line under "ADULT OPEN CLASS REQUIREMENTS" it reads as follows:
(No Working qualifications will be taken into account. Judges will be instructed accordingly).

My question is, what working qualifications are being referred to in the above "bracketed sentence"?
Because if they have a SchH1/VPG1/IPO1 or above & the compulsory Breed Survey (Item 5 Rules & Regs.) they MUST QUALIFY for the Working Class. Therefore they MUST be entered into the Working Class.

Bang that stupid drum loud and long Videx , someone might eventually hear it and listen. What happened to the rule and regulation stickler sueb, any comments?  

AS

Can some one other than Videx( no offence David but I would welcome comments from others) clariry the minium requirements re. working qualification for possible inclusion in the VA group in Seiger shows in Germany ,Belgium and Holland

If it is Sch1 as is being suggested ,then why as the GB Seiger committee set  it at Sch 2 ,especially in the inaugral year of the inclusion of the test of courage at the  GB seiger.It has been a long time coming ,it should be done right  and with as much support as possible by those owning dogs with qualifications.

I do support  others who have stated the requirements should of been made public earlier to give people not in the know a chance to meet the proposed criteria for  possible inclusion in the VA group

I probably will support the GB Seiger show but doubt if I can do a trial in the next few weeks to achieve Sch 2 .Please no comments re. where there are trials in the UK ,as a regular member of a working club i am aware what trials are coming up in the UK