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by Abhay on 08 October 2013 - 01:10
You sound like a Snitch!
by Two Moons on 08 October 2013 - 01:10
No, and I'm not saying I know more than you about the breed.
I'm saying I've seen the worst part of dog fighting and the things I describe happen.
I'm saying I've seen the worst part of dog fighting and the things I describe happen.
by Two Moons on 08 October 2013 - 01:10
I'll take that as an ok, and be on my way, I don't care for this side of the forum anyway.
by Hundmutter on 08 October 2013 - 04:10
From a UK point of view : yes, Moons, I believe you about
the use of 'bait' animals. Not because I have seen it done
myself (thank f**k) but because years ago when Dog Fighting
and APBT's were becoming 'popular' in certain circles, I heard
about it from those who knew and were involved. This is the 70's
here, long before the RSPCA etc got in on the act. When most
of British society was still being distracted by the easy-going,
peace'n'love 60s etc. In more recent times, never mind whether
or not the 'original' Pit breeders crowd had themselves routinely used
baits or not, the fact that a new generation took it upon themselves
to emulate it - wherever they got the ideas from ! - means it HAS
happened, and GOES ON happening. I have seen some of the
results, dogs and cats, alive or dead, marked up and terrified.
Great sport. NOT.
the use of 'bait' animals. Not because I have seen it done
myself (thank f**k) but because years ago when Dog Fighting
and APBT's were becoming 'popular' in certain circles, I heard
about it from those who knew and were involved. This is the 70's
here, long before the RSPCA etc got in on the act. When most
of British society was still being distracted by the easy-going,
peace'n'love 60s etc. In more recent times, never mind whether
or not the 'original' Pit breeders crowd had themselves routinely used
baits or not, the fact that a new generation took it upon themselves
to emulate it - wherever they got the ideas from ! - means it HAS
happened, and GOES ON happening. I have seen some of the
results, dogs and cats, alive or dead, marked up and terrified.
Great sport. NOT.
by Jenni78 on 08 October 2013 - 05:10
Abhay, you cannot post that pic of Mancini without making me drool. Just gorgeous....
Moons, where the hell do you live and what kinds of people do you hang out with that you've seen this more than once or twice? Good grief. Sounds like typical gang bangers and garden variety white trash, to me. Not sure what that has to do with Pit Bulls, really. People like that would do the same thing to whatever animal in their "care," whether it be a "Rockwilder" or Pit or whatever. I'd be curious to know the quality of those dogs you're talking about, not because it makes any difference from a cruelty standpoint, but because I have a really strong suspicion the folks doing that are as I said, just regular, ignorant, trash, wannabes, just like the upper echelon of the SchH world wouldn't prefer to associate with the Tim Helsers and Cory Dewberrys and Lorenzo Williamses of the world, but hey, they're out there! I get a good chuckle when people say things like they "hate to hear of a member of the SchH community going bad" and similar comments, as were made on other boards about Lorenzo, as if the SchH community as a whole is just soooo classy. LOL. It is what it is - there are decent people who love their dogs and competition and there are scumbags, some who hide it better than others. Those people get a lot of publicity and to the outside world looking in, that's what SchH is like. As I've posted before and ruffled some feathers, let's not forget the overlap in the SchH world and the APBT world- there is quite a bit.
My point is only that it's a bit unfair to categorize based on the vocal minority of Pit Bull folks with their cigarettes rolled in their sleeves, leaning on one of several junked cars in their lawns, pouring cheap beer into their toothless mouths, or the inner city gang banger types with their abominations they call "Pit Bulls." The same ilk exists in GSDs, and the whole rest of the dog world. I've never understood it, but the dog world in general is wrought with trash, seemingly a higher percentage than the general public. Pit Bulls are very high in numbers and popularity right now, and as such, you will have a higher percentage of trash involved than say, Yorkshire terriers. I think the numbers of "PPD trainers" of this demographic is worth mentioning. I have a dog for sale and a few of the responses I've gotten are probably related to the folks who dumped the dogs Moons spoke of. There's cruelty and ugliness everywhere. Any breed can be exploited and abused- look at toy breeds in puppy mills.
And no, there is nothing inherently wrong with a chain. It's the dog's overall quality of life that matters, not the physical restraint used to keep him on his property. A chain is no different than an e-collar or any other inanimate object or training tool.
As the owner of good specimens of both breeds, there are aspects of both worlds that I have zero interest in being associated with.
Moons, where the hell do you live and what kinds of people do you hang out with that you've seen this more than once or twice? Good grief. Sounds like typical gang bangers and garden variety white trash, to me. Not sure what that has to do with Pit Bulls, really. People like that would do the same thing to whatever animal in their "care," whether it be a "Rockwilder" or Pit or whatever. I'd be curious to know the quality of those dogs you're talking about, not because it makes any difference from a cruelty standpoint, but because I have a really strong suspicion the folks doing that are as I said, just regular, ignorant, trash, wannabes, just like the upper echelon of the SchH world wouldn't prefer to associate with the Tim Helsers and Cory Dewberrys and Lorenzo Williamses of the world, but hey, they're out there! I get a good chuckle when people say things like they "hate to hear of a member of the SchH community going bad" and similar comments, as were made on other boards about Lorenzo, as if the SchH community as a whole is just soooo classy. LOL. It is what it is - there are decent people who love their dogs and competition and there are scumbags, some who hide it better than others. Those people get a lot of publicity and to the outside world looking in, that's what SchH is like. As I've posted before and ruffled some feathers, let's not forget the overlap in the SchH world and the APBT world- there is quite a bit.
My point is only that it's a bit unfair to categorize based on the vocal minority of Pit Bull folks with their cigarettes rolled in their sleeves, leaning on one of several junked cars in their lawns, pouring cheap beer into their toothless mouths, or the inner city gang banger types with their abominations they call "Pit Bulls." The same ilk exists in GSDs, and the whole rest of the dog world. I've never understood it, but the dog world in general is wrought with trash, seemingly a higher percentage than the general public. Pit Bulls are very high in numbers and popularity right now, and as such, you will have a higher percentage of trash involved than say, Yorkshire terriers. I think the numbers of "PPD trainers" of this demographic is worth mentioning. I have a dog for sale and a few of the responses I've gotten are probably related to the folks who dumped the dogs Moons spoke of. There's cruelty and ugliness everywhere. Any breed can be exploited and abused- look at toy breeds in puppy mills.
And no, there is nothing inherently wrong with a chain. It's the dog's overall quality of life that matters, not the physical restraint used to keep him on his property. A chain is no different than an e-collar or any other inanimate object or training tool.
As the owner of good specimens of both breeds, there are aspects of both worlds that I have zero interest in being associated with.
by Paul Garrison on 08 October 2013 - 07:10
Moons
If you have seen all of that you should change your friends because fighting of dogs is against the law.
If you have seen all of that you should change your friends because fighting of dogs is against the law.
by Sheesh on 08 October 2013 - 10:10
As disgusting as it is, I have to agree with Moons, I have seen the baiting, the cats, the dogs... I worked for years in a vet hospital in Baltimore... Not only were some of our "best" cash customers pit bull owners ( with all sorts of suspicious repeat wounds), BUT, we actually had some boarded dogs stolen and later found out they were used as bait dogs. We had to have iron bars put up. I have seen despicable videos that you cannot "unsee". We had a pit trot into the hosital with a broken leg just dangling and that dog was just as happy as could be. I guess he realized he was the one who made it. He got taken to the vet. His opponent probably not so lucky. I absolutely despised dealing with those guys, but the dogs were generally great to deal with.
by Sheesh on 08 October 2013 - 12:10
This was my blue fawn AmStaff Bubba, that I got from someone in California. He had been used to either fight or for baiting, had scars on his face and legs...was a doll. I loved this guy so much.
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by Abhay on 08 October 2013 - 12:10
I'm confused. You say these dog baiters bring their injured dogs to the Vet? That seems like an Oxymoron. In MD, isn't a DVM required by law to contact LE immediately, if someone brings in a dog involved in a fight? How do you know the stolen dogs were used as bait? Did said thieves and dog baiters, bring them back in for treatment? How did you obtain these sick videos? Do you guys at the clinic kick back and watch dogfight videos? Shouldn't said videos have been turned into LE Immediately?
You say, you have seen the baiting of cats and dogs. Where were you to have witnessed such a spectacle?
I studied the pic of the APBT you posted, and I asure you, that dog has never had a tooth in him. Bite marks never leave. That dog is unmarked.
You say, you have seen the baiting of cats and dogs. Where were you to have witnessed such a spectacle?
I studied the pic of the APBT you posted, and I asure you, that dog has never had a tooth in him. Bite marks never leave. That dog is unmarked.
by GSD Lineage on 08 October 2013 - 12:10
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding
"Inbreeding is reproduction from the mating of parents who are closely related genetically.[1] Inbreeding results in increased homozygosity, which can increase the chances of offspring being affected by recessive or deleterious traits.[2]This generally leads to a decreased fitness of a population,[3][4] "
Rules were implemented in certain clubs such as the SV to stop breeding on 2-3 or closer.
I would also note that the progeny classes place pressure on kennels to use the studs they are currently campaigning "no matter what" to get better ranking. Similarly the ROM/C and Futurity/Maturity systems in the US and Canada also place pressure on breeders to breed to their own and up the ranking of their stock. Like in that Video of W. Martin Ibrahim Posted, "Some would take 20 females to a favorite dog" so of course they will get something good from him eventually.
"Inbreeding is reproduction from the mating of parents who are closely related genetically.[1] Inbreeding results in increased homozygosity, which can increase the chances of offspring being affected by recessive or deleterious traits.[2]This generally leads to a decreased fitness of a population,[3][4] "
Rules were implemented in certain clubs such as the SV to stop breeding on 2-3 or closer.
I would also note that the progeny classes place pressure on kennels to use the studs they are currently campaigning "no matter what" to get better ranking. Similarly the ROM/C and Futurity/Maturity systems in the US and Canada also place pressure on breeders to breed to their own and up the ranking of their stock. Like in that Video of W. Martin Ibrahim Posted, "Some would take 20 females to a favorite dog" so of course they will get something good from him eventually.
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