what can we do in this situation ? - Page 3

ok  thank  you  for  your  advice  i agree  with  aceof spades low  protien  diet  is  most  useful  than  high  protein so   i feed  him  royal  canine  for  gaint  puppies  as  have low  protein and  has  glucose  amine  and  omega  my  question is  the  calcium  is  good  or  harmful  for  this  puppy ? and  what  of  the  role  of  tri B (vitamines B)  injection  in  this  case

Lower protein is good for most large-breed puppies but this puppy needs help strengthening his pastern ligaments - he needs more protein.

molly

I would also recommend lower protein plus I would ask the vet to do the blood test,it may help to find out the problem. I would be careful about adding calcium,too much calcium causes problems.
Good luck with your puppy

    I have to say I agree with molly on this one. Give this dog the proper nutrients, and lots of exercise, and I'd be willing to bet this pup will straighten itself out.
     WHO in their right mind would have that pup chained up on that short chain, "for any reason, for any lenghth of time'. Picture taking ain't an excuse for that.

This dog was on a Giant Breed puppy food--why?  GSDs are NOT giant breeds--that food is formulated for Great Danes, Newfoundlands, Irish Wolfhounds, Mastiffs...Giant breeds.  And then supplementing with calcium? While I'm sure you had great intentions, I can't help but wonder who advised you that this was the best way to feed this pup...calcium supplementation without evidence that there is any deficiency of such is a recipe for disaster, especially if the calcium/phosphorus ratio is not balanced.  Get this pup OFF any supplemental calcium, get him ON a good quality puppy or adult dog food, and keep him lean--you should be able to feel his ribs with some slight finger pressure, but you shouldn't be able to SEE the ribs. 

The pup's problem isn't the bones or the joint structures themselves, it's the ligaments, tendons and muscling that are weak.

My second GSD started out with very strong upright legs.  This was many years ago when Giardia went mostly undiagnosed.  I took till she was two years old to get a diagnosis.  I went to 5 different vets.  Her pasterns went down very badly her ears were weak and the worst thing, she went from an OFA good prelim to mild displastic at two.

After several courses of panacur and switching her to raw food, she came back up on her pasterns and her ears stiffened.  A later xray showed marked improvement in her hips.

Loose stools will leach the calcium out of her bones, and teeth due to malabsorbtion.

Something happened and it might not be genetic.

Michele

If children sometimes have to get special shoes and prosthetics to correct problems like this, why can you not make some splints for him? If you do it iearly, there may be hope. I have seen this problem before (a friends pup), and the pup was crated most of the time, in hopes that it would help. It didn't, and the pup was eventually put down.  It looked much worse than yours, though.

If it were me, here is what I would try..

I would take some heavy sheepskin with the wool still on, and make a wrap, like a stiff tube, around the puppy's forelegs. The wool in will cushion, allow breathing, and prevent sores. You should make this tube as long as the entire length of the foreleg, including the pastern and foot, but allowing the toes to flex out, so that the pup is standing on his paw pads. Now, use an Ace (elastic bandage) and wrap the entire thing up and down very firmly, so that it is rigid.  The pup will adjust to it and walk around, but should not be encouraged to run. You can take it off for brief periods to allow natural movement, but preferably only on a thick lawn or soft carpet. Avoid slick floors altogether. This wrap should be changed every day and the air allowed to circulate. You can reuse the wrap, of course.. just let the air circulate.

There is a similar congenital problem in Arabian horses (some family lines, only). I do not know offhand what it is called. I have had a liitter with HOD a long time ago, and the problems were much more extensive than loose pasterns. I don't think this is HOD, but I am not in a position to diagnose. Only a licensed veterinarian can do that by examining the dog. If you are not satisified with the opinion of one vet, try two or three or four until you find the right vet. All vets are not equal, unfortunately.

My feeling is that this is a tendon problem.. could be tendonitis (inflammatory process) but I doubt it, unless you see fever, malaise, localized temperature elevation. Sometimes, for some reasons, the tendons just may not be strong enough. If you allow the pup to walk on his pasterns like that, there could be some serious and irreparable longterm harm. I would put the splints on him. If you cannot get the woolskin, then several wraps of canvas cloth may do, but the air won't circulate as well and you will have to compensate in some manner. Above all, you must keep changing it every day and checking for problems with binding of the wrappings and circulatory problems. I am hoping that with supportive prosthetics, that the pup may simply outgrow this problem. I don't think it is worth waiting to try to see what will happen if you do nothing.

Ask your vet what he thinks of this idea. I think it is worth a shot.

I would let him have some chicken wings a couple times a day;  depending on  his weight;  at least 2 wings 2 times per day.  You can give before he gets his kibble;  I would give him some cottage cheese, some yogart and raw egg with shell.  I would not add calcium supplements other than the above.  If you can swim him on long line that would be good exercise for him;  my boy looked the same way growing up and as an adult still had very weak pasterns.  I did not restrict his exercise like I should have and did not watch his weight close enough.  The weak pasterns can be caused by excessive weight also.  So keep him very lean and the chicken wings and other things I mentioned above can help that;  cutting down his kibble amount accordingly.  Goo d Luck  he has a nice pedigree;  I hope time can help built him up.  Nan

I know a breeder who had a dog returned to her when it was about a year old.  The dog was very flat in the pasterns from malnutrition.  She pretty much did everything Molly has advised, and within one month the dog's pasterns were almost completely normal.

 I think we have a language barrier here. Somehow the best advice is not sinking in. MainlyMax, could you translate? Seems you were starting to a few posts back. I agree w/Molly on this one. This is crap food in combination with supplementation by someone who has no idea what they're doing. This is VERY dangerous. You'd be better off feeding a dog Ol' Roy and no supplements than causing such an imbalance by supplementing calcium alone on top of a "balanced" commercial diet. Yikes.