2008 Master World Schutzhund Tornament

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by Pat Relton on 10 February 2008 - 14:02

Speaknow

when my club had a trial they paid the judge 75. a day so that is basically for free and she signed scorebooks even

do you think these world class competitors are idiots? do you think they would come if it was not fair? and i have bought videos like from Family treasures of events I could not go to see

and you write you won't transport your dog halfway around the world well you don't have that problem cause i looked at the list of competitors and RIGHTNOW there is no SPEAKNOW on that list

now i see you ain't so smart and your thesaurus is all you got

by sueincc on 10 February 2008 - 14:02

Schutzhund X-Games - I like it!!!!

For those who don't like the idea of the event, it's certainly your perogative not to go, as well as to not like the event, but COME ON, you have voiced your concerns and your complaints, ENOUGH, Leave it! The overwhelming majority just do not share your concerns, and there's nothing you can say that will change that. It's obvious there is nothing we can say to change your minds either.

Just think of it, if you are so sure you are right, I have no doubt you will find a lot of satisfaction of telling everyone how right you were, but at least have the courtesy to give it a rest until then.

by doggman on 10 February 2008 - 15:02

I am in favor of Carlos' tournament and will be there even though it's quite a long drive. But the NorthEast Region doesn't even have a regional listed yet on the USA website.

D'man

by Speaknow on 11 February 2008 - 11:02

Always a joy to hear from you Pat. You first say, “when my club had a trial they paid the judge 75. a day so that is basically for free and she signed scorebooks even.” A fine lady indeed. But you seem to be making my point for me, Pat. This is what club mutuality is all about: we share the same aims and a common passion and therefore in various ways freely help each other without expecting payment or monetary gain. But why would your lady judge, by way of example, give the same time and expertise gratis only so as to boost the profit of some businessman? Were I a judge of sufficiently high standing I’d at least demand a slice of video sales income or similar - only good business really. And then say, “do you think these world class competitors are idiots? do you think they would come if it was not fair?” Once more that impeccable syntax and felicitous phrasing! Well, dog training may demand patience and devotion, as for becoming a good judge for that matter, but doesn’t exactly require superior I.Q. or a university degree. More importantly, we talking ‘sport’ here, Pat. The amateur golfer will desert his family for week-ends on end, and young teenagers spend six hours a day going up and down that pool with no immediate reward in sight. It’s about winning, the limelight, challenge, ego, one’s sense of identity and standing among peers, celebrity, fame, glory, you name it. Then, are our ‘world class competitors’ really concerned with Breed as such. I assume the dogs here will be GSD’s but most of them would probably be just as happy with the Malinois, if not more so. In fact, didn’t Helmut Raiser once suggest we should cross-breed the two (bet that went over like a ton of bricks!) Why not go the whole hog as for a buddy of mine? He’s into his own tracking/obedience/agility (he can’t stand club politics) and gets his mutts from the local refuge, carefully selecting and waiting for those with good body, strength, and plenty of spunk and spirit (and you should see them in action!) Speak to him about GSD angles, trotting or rigid straight spines and he just laughs.

by sueincc on 11 February 2008 - 15:02

Speaknow: Judging from all your various comments on this thread, you have a great command of the language but very little knowledge of schutzhund, and even less about the top competitors in the sport. I would suggest you gain some first hand knowledge before spouting off negatively about people and dogs you obviously have no first hand knowledge of.

Making fun of the way others speak may make you feel superior, but it doesn't take away from the fact you don't know what you're talking about.

You come off as someone with very sour grapes or an axe to grind.

by Aqua on 11 February 2008 - 15:02

Is it perhaps time to stop beating up on Speaknow? It isn't a requirement that one is an expert in any one sport to ask questions about an event, is it? Few of us have firsthand knowledge about much of anything yet we all feel free to share our opinions. Speaknow raised some points to ponder which were of concern to her/him. I, personally, found her/his style neither abrasive nor particularly difficult to follow, nor did I read any sour grapes into any of the posts. Perceptions and skills differ. I did find myself surprised at the vehemence of the attacks on this subscriber. Has anyone actually answered any of her/his questions?

by sueincc on 11 February 2008 - 16:02

Beating up on Speaknow? What questions? This person has done nothing but make unfounded claims as well as personal attacks with regards to the integrity of those who participate at the upper echelons of the sport and regards those who would judge, those who would sponsor, even with regards to the sport itself.

I find unsubstantiated bull shit highly abrasive.

by Speaknow on 12 February 2008 - 01:02

Hi Sue, Till now I enjoyed reading various other posts of yours. I’d come to expect it from the more feral ‘groupies’ here, but how dismal to see you carry on likewise (after wisely staying out of the topic throughout - as I wish I had!). And then with prim little personal slurs and meaningless, unfounded generalizations (the very things you accuse me of?), while seemingly equally bereft to tackle any of the matters raised. And, then, who are you to so arrogantly speak “for the overwhelming majority” or to presumptuously tell me to “Leave it!” and whatever else? For your benefit, my interest in the Tournament itself is slight and for initiator’s sake hope it succeeds. It’s the wider implications on GSD affairs that worry me. This whole idea of lone entrepreneurs jumping on the schutzhund band wagon (gravy-train?) for private profit-making and paying financial incentives to get their shows on the road. The direct coupling of money to what for most is a club-centered hobby, a satisfying pastime or recreation. Capitalism owns a momentum or force all of its own, and if Carlos’s succeeds financially I’d venture that others will quickly follow, all competing to attract the celebrity names; with money making it own rules and in the process opening new avenues for corruption and distortion. I never expected better from most of the rabid clique here but, going by some of your other entries, thought you might have understood! And instead of mindlessly rabbiting-on about my writing like the others, what exactly is it that you don’t understand, that needs “substantiation” and of which I allegedly have “no first hand knowledge” (by the way, I take part in schutzhund practice at the local club). Particularly since all I’ve said screams of the self-evident, with some posters here are themselves silly enough to provide their own substantiation! Lack of respect for our “world-class competitors”? Well, other than lots of admiration for legendary Helmut, you’re probably right. As far as I’m concerned this type of competition is elitist ego-tripping sport, showmanship, if not cameras, very little to do with GSD activity more broadly or improving our breed (you yourself are unable to refer to it other than as “sport”); not to forget money of course. Maybe you can’t see how such an event freely trades off the back of present club structure (without which this whole activity couldn’t function), and all those therein who freely give their time, effort and knowledge and always have, yet operates completely outside of it without any transparency or formal protections whatsoever? I can’t even comprehend how some of the participants, any judges included, with long-term, vested interest in existing GSD clubs (ignoring some of the more ‘renegade’ schutzhund set-ups), and assuming honest care for GSD affairs in a wider sense, can even contemplate taking part. But want me to really stick my neck out? Taking all the issues as one (but ignoring the relatively minor stake-money), I think they’re nuts! I also fail to understand why the owner of this forum allows a private profit-making venture to freely advertise itself in present form.

by sueincc on 12 February 2008 - 01:02

"As far as I’m concerned this type of competition is elitist ego-tripping sport, showmanship, if not cameras, very little to do with GSD activity more broadly or improving our breed (you yourself are unable to refer to it other than as “sport”); not to forget money of course." (Speaknow)

Oh really? Well that statement proves my point. You obviously don't know the people you are talking about, but you know what? I DO and buddy, you couldn't be further from the truth.

Go ahead with your bad self, keep it up, act the fool. If you ever find you need advise about or help with your dogs, don't worry, these same people you slander will step up to the plate for you - not because they could give a shit about you, they care about the dogs.

Maybe if you shut up and watch, you'll learn something.

by glbtrottr on 12 February 2008 - 06:02

Speaknow: you so freely and savagely encourage "night school" and the use of a dictionary - wherever did you come up with the word "sunstituting"? As an English as a second language student, and one who clearly hasn't spent enough time with either document, I'd like to know. "Regulatatory" has me equally baffled. "Furore" also. "Strictures??"

Kindly return the favor (or favour, since you seem to enjoy straddling between American and English spellings without strict observance of either manner)...and search "pomposity" and "condescencion." Oddly fitting for you, even from an ESL student like me.

Unfortunately, your supercilious, punctilious and unctuous demeanor didn't help you either grammar or spell check your posts, even with all sorts of technology freely available. Perhaps you're busy saving your shekels for a more complete dictionary? Let go of the tree, lad...and don't let the "moronic, lunatic redneck-like" fanatics scare you. Judging by the responses in this thread to your inane comments, it looks like they are the majority and you're the oddball asking mommy to call the principal and daddy calling the board since the boys are being "mean to you."

Speaknow's comments are laughable. Concerned about money in the sport or how the clubs relate?

On one thing we violently agree, and I quote: Speaknow: "(I never was too bright)."

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