Worst Pedigree Ever? - Page 2

I'm saying that dilute GSDs could have fewer or even no health issues apple, IF color breeders actually bred for good health first then color. Currently many dilute GSDs are unhealthy as they are bred just for their coloring with no care to any health issues. I have have seen way too many frail weak boned dilute GSDs compared to strong healthy solid boned ones for instance. As I said most dilute GSDs I've seen have a thin Malinois build that they should not have. There is a color breeder that I shall not name, on Facebook ,who has such awkward Malinois dilute GSDs, it's insane that people even want them, let alone see them as GSDs. Supposedly they are all AKC registered purebred GSDs, but it's hard to see it when they look like Malinois mixes. Look more like twig dogs, seriously it's so awful! Poor dogs probably have brittle bones even.

JUST SO BRITISH DOGS DO NOT GET THOUGHT TOO BADLY OF !!!
On the other hand you can get a modern Germanic breeding where the dog is of perfectly sound temperament, and lives to a good age. The dog in my avatar being a case in point - he had solid nerves, was highly trainable (could have gone a lot further, if he had not been saddled with me !), and lived to 12 years. Survived a Bloat; and being run over by a car. Had a perfectly ok digestive system. Never had any of those nagging problems like Anal Fistulas. Had good hips (UK 3:3). Elbows not assessed but not a cause of trouble.

But he was STILL "too much Uran" for my liking, it's a breeding I would have hesitated to do if I'd been the person who planned it.

When you say "most of it on dogs who do not give health or working ability", Sunny, can I suggest you modify that to "some" or even "many", but please not 'most'. I can assure you there were, and are, a lot of dogs like Taz over here; lots of 'top dogs' from German and other European Siegers as part of their pedigrees, but not the stupidly close matings like Fantom lists ...

UK Show breeding is, in the majority, nothing like the sort of breeding exemplified by the Benvillarosa All That Jazz case; and most of the Germanic / International 'side' breeders in particular are only too aware of, care about, and take steps to avoid breeding with the lines that carry epilepsy. They certainly do not condone those breeders who knowingly take those risks. And yes, it is hard to fathom the breeder in that particular case was 'unaware' - in fact I would go so far as to say they were known to be aware, but unconvinced it was a bad mistake to make.

There's another thread on the PDB that shows how epilepsy in the U.K. lines traces back to a single dog imported from Germany.

When its origins have been traced, there's really no excuse for breeders not avoiding these lines!

Some don't avoid them, though. Our Breed Health Coordinator is only too aware - because she makes a point of tracing the pedigrees back - that people have used up to 200+ lines returning to the dog in question, over the 50 years or so that have elapsed since he was around. The fact that so many of the people are 'breeders' of the money-making 'coats n colours' brigade does not reflect the habits of the vast majority of UK GSD breeders and exhibitors, even though like [everywhere else] those concentrate on Black & Gold - to the almost exclusion of every other non-dilute colour - for the Showring.

Because quite some time has elapsed, I suppose some allowances could be made for early use of the dog. The nature and spread of epilepsy was far less well known and understood at that time. But there has certainly not been any excuse for continuing to use the tainted lines in recent years, except where ignorance leads to people breeding with 'pet' quality stock they have (and seek) no knowledge about the genetic background to. And you can make sure the information is out there, but you cannot make people use it. I suspect that, even had we had more and earlier success in getting the Kennel Club to warn against using such bloodlines, or deal with it in some outright way by banning breeding with affected dogs, the difficulties of dealing with an 'instigator' dog who may himself have had more of the disease in his background IN Germany, and who, while siring fitters, did not actually exhibit seizures himself would have meant that an awful lot of breeding got through the net - including in dogs exported to contribute to the founding of many of the 'white' bloodlines across the world.  With epilepsy IN PARTICULAR there has also been a long-standing problem, in dogs as in humans, of the illness being deliberately covered up through embarrassment at the symptoms !

Sven vom Grafental/Sindy Schaferliesel cross was a disaster and even banned I believe.

Hardwork where did u here banned .and why

Heard it years ago...was more to do with Sindy I believe... a lot of talk about being being banned by SV but don't know if ever was.

What were the problems produced by crossing those two dogs?

There is a pretty famous breeder who relocated to the US who is basically doing "Father to Daughter" type of breedings now ... I do not want to know what will come to the surface through these breedings.

Sven vom Grafental/Sindy Schaferliesel seem to have been bred together 3 x!!!
Lots of offspring.
What was the issue here that you know of, Hardworking?

Add:

I just now found this thead:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/community.read?post=251548-sven-vom-grafental