WARNING to all dog trainers who post training videos! - Page 2

why don't you post his/her name here so we can make a fail compilation about his or her trainning/competitions??? could be a very nice response to the film
 

Blitzen wrote: Gentle leaders and flat buckle collars

Oh, no, no collars! Those will hurt your dog's trachea! HARNESSES are the ONLY way to go!! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2l8Qv1htUY&feature=channel_page

BTW, the lady that posted this link had her very large male dog attack another dog at a recent specialty show!    She doesn't believe in giving corrections because he will think the correction is coming from the other dog, and it will just make him WORSE!


I recently had a dog in here, a male boxer. The owner had fallen for this harness crap, and the dog was COMPLETELY out of control! I put a prong on him, and showed her just how nicely he'd walk for me on it. He immediately began to behave like a perfect gentlemen, even sitting on command, with almost no corrections needed. I don't know if I got through to her or not. She needed to find another home for the dog, as she and her BF had split up, and she had to move back home with Mom. I really don't know what became of the dog. But the chances of him finding another home with the way he was behaving on the harness were very slim.
 

I wonder how they would react to say Fozzie's videos where his happily working IPO dogs are doing all sorts of "Aggressive " work like biting the Michelin Man and joyfully going after dumbbells. Most of these "Purely Positive" trainers only wish they could get that look of loving dedication in their dogs. Fozzies dogs are wagging their tails, smiling up ay him lolling their tongues and adoringly awaiting the next command. Yet i'm willing to bet that somewhere along the line they have been given a correction.
The PP movement sort of scares me. And i'm ashamed to say this movement is almost wholly being pushed by women. (Yeah i know a few guys are on the bandwagon) But still I know a lot of the trainers in my area and all the PP ones are women.
Fozzie sorry to pick on you but i really enjoy the IPO vids.
Have a great weekend everyone!
Fry

It scares me too, Fry. The PP people want to outlaw prongs and choke chains, and they have succeeded in doing so in some countries (prong collars.)

When  brought my latest rescue home, I soon found the prong was the ONLY thing that really would allow me to control her properly. Maybe now she understands what I want of her, I can gradually transition to a buckle collar, but until we get a handle on her dog aggression issues, the prong is by far the safest option!

Lol watched the vid posted in which she is babbling on about the pitbulls poor trachea.  Seems very proud that the dog (her personal dog!) can loose leash walk.  Trainers like this are where I get clients from :).  When your a trainer your personal dog is a reflection of your skills and abilities. 
Most competent trainers can have a dog loose leash walking in 1-2 days..  Off leash heel in 2-3 weeks.

Where have you seen this post and who is the person posting it? 

It was on a "force free" training group on Facebook. The thread had many links to videos these people thought were "abusive" (some were over the top- others, normal correction). The thread has since been deleted but I have a screenshot of the original post.

I will say that positive training works just fine for some dogs.... the "clicker/cookie" method... because it works VERY well with my dog. I have yet to use a prong on her, and I've almost had her 2 years. THAT BEING SAID if she acts inappropriately I am not afraid to give her a correction, thankfully she is just easy enough to handle on a fursaver or with voice. If she were to quit listening, I would not hesitate trying a prong though. But that is just what works for us and every dog is different.

The attitude is given away by the phrase: 
"I need youtube videos of force based training that look bad
to the non-trainer".


This is about shock journalism, getting it to Sundance, making
the producers name, etc, before it is about mistreatment of animals.

Training with corrections is not necessarily forcing the dog to
do - or not do - anything.  IMO 'force' gets you very poor results
anyway.

Dawolf is absolutely right, there are many, many dogs who can be
trained with just the Reward system.  There are also many, many
good trainers and owners who get those good results with entirely positive
training.  But the Purely Positive brigade, who feel that NO corrections
or tools should be used, sometimes even arguing that use of a flat collar
or the word "No"  are too much, ought to be  taken out and ... put in a
small room with a very big, spoilt, dog !!!  [AND NO COOKIES]

I use / train on  a flat collar, I don't even use a check chain any more.
But I know that, SHOULD IT BE NECESSARY, tools like check chains
are available.  Frighten the general public,  non-training, audience to death
with this sort of CONSTRUCTED, ENHANCED-BY-EDITING, nonsense,
and eventually the politicians will be lobbied to ban ALL the useful tools.

I kind of sit on the fence about whether e collars should be taken off the
market;  there are too many fools who won't use them properly around, for
me to feel entirely comfortable about them being widely available in the UK.
And this is NOT about approving of anyone "kicking 7 kinds of sh*t out
of a dog";  but people like this film producer (and I suspect I might know who
that is) need to learn that what THEY see as 'cruel' isn't necessarily, its about
'horses for courses' with specific dogsand specific training needs;  and that all
the pot-stirring while trying to keep his/her own name up in lights does more
damage than they realise, not just to the 'world' of dog-ownership generally,
but in the long run TO THE DOGS THEMSELVES.

 

"Gentle Leaders"


I cannot beleive anyone thinks these head collar things, whatever brand, are a kind alternative to any kind of collar.   Put a collar on a dog and within hours at most, it has forgotten it is there and will never bother about it again.  I have yet to meet a dog wearing a head collar that was not constantly trying to rub or paw it off as soon as it is not walking, even after years of wearing one.  How anyone can think something that a dog finds so disturbing is humane I cannot imagine.

Margaret N-J