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by Sock Puppet on 30 July 2010 - 04:07
I figured you did want to listen to some Petty tonight?
Taking suggestions.
Taking suggestions.
by Two Moons on 30 July 2010 - 04:07
Nope,
I'm about to call it a night.
Things are just too slow around here for me tonight.
Boring too.
Actually I've been listening to some old stranger stuff lately.
But thanks for the offer.
I'm about to call it a night.
Things are just too slow around here for me tonight.
Boring too.
Actually I've been listening to some old stranger stuff lately.
But thanks for the offer.
by rainforestscouts on 30 July 2010 - 12:07
Less than forty years ago you may have made the arguement that the DSM defined homosexuality as a mental disorder and therefore, anyone belieiving otherwise should not be allowed to continue in a public university program. To my knowledge, she has not engaged in any type of repairative therapy.
If until sixty years ago law schools had decided to require students to agree to the concept of "separate but equal" where would we be?
Should environmental studies majors be required to adhere to the dogma of man made global warming even in light of recent evidence to the contrary?
The simple solution for her would have been to do what politicians do, hide her true beliefs until she achieved her title. I just don't think she should have to a public university.
RFS
Waves to SP. XOXOXOXOXOXXX
If until sixty years ago law schools had decided to require students to agree to the concept of "separate but equal" where would we be?
Should environmental studies majors be required to adhere to the dogma of man made global warming even in light of recent evidence to the contrary?
The simple solution for her would have been to do what politicians do, hide her true beliefs until she achieved her title. I just don't think she should have to a public university.
RFS
Waves to SP. XOXOXOXOXOXXX
by raymond on 30 July 2010 - 15:07
Distilling this down to "she's being kicked out of school for her religious feelings about gays and transsexuals" is inaccurate and inflammatory.Mudwick I trust you will stick to your statement even though it is untrue according to the printed story! the school says that her views are not the accepted views held by the school! Since she holds a christian view reguarding homosexuality and gender identy she is being openly and blatantly discriminated against because of her views!
It is sad that so many lgt and others of color or differing religous beliefs scream to high heaven when they feel they are oppressed! but shed no tears when they openly and with govt. suport oppress those with traditional judeo christian beliefs! find it ludicrious that you would even think that the person in question is not being treated unfairly! Becauise her beliefs are not in line with the schools beliefs is a mute point! You scream to high heaven because you fell oppressed yet support those who do oppress! Does a double standard exist here? Yes! Now howwould you feel if yours was a dishonorable discharge because of your sexual idenity rather real or percieved?
It is sad that so many lgt and others of color or differing religous beliefs scream to high heaven when they feel they are oppressed! but shed no tears when they openly and with govt. suport oppress those with traditional judeo christian beliefs! find it ludicrious that you would even think that the person in question is not being treated unfairly! Becauise her beliefs are not in line with the schools beliefs is a mute point! You scream to high heaven because you fell oppressed yet support those who do oppress! Does a double standard exist here? Yes! Now howwould you feel if yours was a dishonorable discharge because of your sexual idenity rather real or percieved?
by Jenni78 on 30 July 2010 - 15:07
Raymond, did you read what MW said? I'm having an admittedly hard time here not calling MW Alyssa, but I'm trying. I have a fairly decent idea what MW was saying, and a fairly decent idea of MW's character, having read literally thousands of posts by Alyssa Myracle, now Aaron. While the name may have changed, the core of the person did not, and I think Aaron was pretty clear that the school was within their rights, and I have never found occasion to call Alyssa or Aaron/Mudwick a hypocrite.
I don't understand this idea that to be "Christian" you must hate everyone else. <shrug>
I was raised Catholic, spent years and years in Catholic school, even college (large Muslim population at my private Catholic college, btw). NEVER in all my years of Catholic schooling were we taught that we were above any other religion, nor were we taught to dislike gays. Naturally, the perceived biblical view was discussed, but we most certainly were not taught to treat those different than the "norm" (if normal people exist, lol) with anything but tolerance. This "Christian" movement, to me, is quite scary in the fanatics and born-agains it seems to be churning out with increasing speed. I find many to be nothing more than your average hypocrite. I find that the true Christians are not the ones spouting off venom about those differing from themselves.
I don't understand this idea that to be "Christian" you must hate everyone else. <shrug>
I was raised Catholic, spent years and years in Catholic school, even college (large Muslim population at my private Catholic college, btw). NEVER in all my years of Catholic schooling were we taught that we were above any other religion, nor were we taught to dislike gays. Naturally, the perceived biblical view was discussed, but we most certainly were not taught to treat those different than the "norm" (if normal people exist, lol) with anything but tolerance. This "Christian" movement, to me, is quite scary in the fanatics and born-agains it seems to be churning out with increasing speed. I find many to be nothing more than your average hypocrite. I find that the true Christians are not the ones spouting off venom about those differing from themselves.
by sueincc on 30 July 2010 - 15:07
Actually I think the schools' position is a responsible one, in that it has more to do with protecting the community against lasting and devastating emotional damage caused by misinformed and myopic counselors and irresponsible predatory psychologists who would try to convince people being gay is bad and something they can choose not to be.
Would we allow someone who thinks there is nothing wrong with molesting children be a teacher? This is no different, this is protecting the community against someone who's beliefs are a threat to their emotional well being.
Would we allow someone who thinks there is nothing wrong with molesting children be a teacher? This is no different, this is protecting the community against someone who's beliefs are a threat to their emotional well being.
by Jenni78 on 30 July 2010 - 15:07
Sue, was that to me or Raymond? I agree w/you, either way. I think it also spells lots of $$ for them; imagine how much they could "earn" trying to help someone not be gay! Not exactly a quick fix for that. ;-)
by sueincc on 30 July 2010 - 15:07
Not you Jenn, and I agree with your post too. We were posting at the same time I think.
by Myracle on 30 July 2010 - 16:07
Distilling this down to "she's being kicked out of school for her religious feelings about gays and transsexuals" is inaccurate and inflammatory.Mudwick I trust you will stick to your statement even though it is untrue according to the printed story! the school says that her views are not the accepted views held by the school! Since she holds a christian view reguarding homosexuality and gender identy she is being openly and blatantly discriminated against because of her views!
Once again, this is patently false. The school is refusing to award her the degree, because she does not meet the criteria for the degree.
It is sad that so many lgt and others of color or differing religous beliefs scream to high heaven when they feel they are oppressed! but shed no tears when they openly and with govt. suport oppress those with traditional judeo christian beliefs! find it ludicrious that you would even think that the person in question is not being treated unfairly! Becauise her beliefs are not in line with the schools beliefs is a mute point!
This has nothing to do with her beliefs, it has to do with her not being qualified for the degree.
If a doctor believed in "Christian Science", he'd also be denied a medical degree. Not because of his beliefs, but because he's fundamentally unqualified to hold that type of degree.
You scream to high heaven because you fell oppressed yet support those who do oppress! Does a double standard exist here? Yes! Now howwould you feel if yours was a dishonorable discharge because of your sexual idenity rather real or percieved?
Who is this "you"? Where did *I* scream to high heaven about anything?
If I'd received a Dishonorable Discharge, my objection would not be to the discharge portion. It would be to the dishonorable portion. Those that know me, know that I do not believe transsexuals undergoing medical transition should be permitted to remain in the military. I believe their discharge should be Honorable, however. Your comparison lacks any similarity.
A Dishonorable Discharge is the equivilant of a felony conviction in the civilian world. Receiving one means that, among other things, you are forbidden to bear arms. I would object strenuously to being denied my Constitutional right to keep and bear arms on the basis that I am transsexual.
No one has a Constitutional right to be a counselor. It is the Federal Government that has established the guidelines and ruled that counselors should adhere to the APA standards. She does not, therefore, she is unqualified.
Once again, this is patently false. The school is refusing to award her the degree, because she does not meet the criteria for the degree.
It is sad that so many lgt and others of color or differing religous beliefs scream to high heaven when they feel they are oppressed! but shed no tears when they openly and with govt. suport oppress those with traditional judeo christian beliefs! find it ludicrious that you would even think that the person in question is not being treated unfairly! Becauise her beliefs are not in line with the schools beliefs is a mute point!
This has nothing to do with her beliefs, it has to do with her not being qualified for the degree.
If a doctor believed in "Christian Science", he'd also be denied a medical degree. Not because of his beliefs, but because he's fundamentally unqualified to hold that type of degree.
You scream to high heaven because you fell oppressed yet support those who do oppress! Does a double standard exist here? Yes! Now howwould you feel if yours was a dishonorable discharge because of your sexual idenity rather real or percieved?
Who is this "you"? Where did *I* scream to high heaven about anything?
If I'd received a Dishonorable Discharge, my objection would not be to the discharge portion. It would be to the dishonorable portion. Those that know me, know that I do not believe transsexuals undergoing medical transition should be permitted to remain in the military. I believe their discharge should be Honorable, however. Your comparison lacks any similarity.
A Dishonorable Discharge is the equivilant of a felony conviction in the civilian world. Receiving one means that, among other things, you are forbidden to bear arms. I would object strenuously to being denied my Constitutional right to keep and bear arms on the basis that I am transsexual.
No one has a Constitutional right to be a counselor. It is the Federal Government that has established the guidelines and ruled that counselors should adhere to the APA standards. She does not, therefore, she is unqualified.
by Myracle on 30 July 2010 - 16:07
Less than forty years ago you may have made the arguement that the DSM defined homosexuality as a mental disorder and therefore, anyone belieiving otherwise should not be allowed to continue in a public university program.
Not quite. To be more exact, the APA's treatment guidelines require that you must use evidence based approaches.
40 years ago, there was no evidence one way or the other re: homosexuality, so either position could have been taken at that time. In the past 40 years, thousands of studies have been conducted, establishing evidence-based approaches, which this student is rejecting.
If until sixty years ago law schools had decided to require students to agree to the concept of "separate but equal" where would we be?
If a law student 60 years ago had been ignorant of the caselaw surrounding "separate but equal", he'd have failed the Bar Exam.
If he'd been able to make a LEGAL case for "separate but equal", he'd have been free to oppose it all he wanted without fear of being denied his degree. If he'd been unable to argue his point on legal grounds, he'd have been unfit to practice law.
Unfortunately, this girl cannot make a PSYCHOLOGICAL argument for homosexuality or transsexuality being a choice; thus, she's unfit to provide mental health services.
Should environmental studies majors be required to adhere to the dogma of man made global warming even in light of recent evidence to the contrary?
They should be able to support their arguments using accepted practices within their chosen science.
Should we be permitted to allow persons to hold degrees in astronomy who believe the earth is the center of the universe as the Bible suggests?
Not quite. To be more exact, the APA's treatment guidelines require that you must use evidence based approaches.
40 years ago, there was no evidence one way or the other re: homosexuality, so either position could have been taken at that time. In the past 40 years, thousands of studies have been conducted, establishing evidence-based approaches, which this student is rejecting.
If until sixty years ago law schools had decided to require students to agree to the concept of "separate but equal" where would we be?
If a law student 60 years ago had been ignorant of the caselaw surrounding "separate but equal", he'd have failed the Bar Exam.
If he'd been able to make a LEGAL case for "separate but equal", he'd have been free to oppose it all he wanted without fear of being denied his degree. If he'd been unable to argue his point on legal grounds, he'd have been unfit to practice law.
Unfortunately, this girl cannot make a PSYCHOLOGICAL argument for homosexuality or transsexuality being a choice; thus, she's unfit to provide mental health services.
Should environmental studies majors be required to adhere to the dogma of man made global warming even in light of recent evidence to the contrary?
They should be able to support their arguments using accepted practices within their chosen science.
Should we be permitted to allow persons to hold degrees in astronomy who believe the earth is the center of the universe as the Bible suggests?
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