2009 USA Nationals - Page 12

Wow, this thread has tanked fast. We have gone from talking about a national event...... to bylaw amendments that seem to be driven by egos, to allegations of abuse, alleged dog theft by a breed warden, abusive training methods, backstabbing, and now the cherry on the cake- the PETA freak. How sad for the breed, when people should be coming together as a collective whole to determine the best course of action to protect the breed and sport, we now have gone 10 steps backwards. The actions of a few who perhaps train with too heavy of a hand, e-collar, etc. are not the majority, most of us love our dogs and train and compete for the enjoyment of time spent with our dogs, and our accomplishments in the end. This has done nothing but further drive a wedge between all who love the breed. This has done nothing but take away fom the top competitors at such a large event that don't train like that, the actions of one should not reflect on all who have worked very hard, given countless hours training, and earned the right to be there. Unfortunately, the outside world usually only sees the top competitors at an event such as this, and assume all of us train with too heavy of a correction. Now we have opened the door for the Peta freaks to assume we all abuse our dogs, very very sad.

Now, Petapal, I really feel you would be better suited to look elsewhere for "abuse", how about spending your time investigating puppy mills, Joe Blow who has the un-spayed dog who gets loose and has an unwanted litter because he was too ignorant to confine his dog, or how about the ones who don't want to neuter their males because the "need" the validation of their "manly " dog. I can assure you I see far more "abuse",  and neglect at the vet hospital I work in by your average pet owner than I have by someone training their dog.

T replied, “Everything between you and your dog must come from your heart, out of love. Your reward comes out of love and so does your correction!

Yet his clients zap away with e-collars pretty intently before going on the field.  I've seen them off in the woods next to the trial field.

You can look at ANY trainer and find a fault in thier methods. Abuse is such a misused word. Everything can be considered abuse...depending on who's making the judgment.


As a wise man once said, show me your dog and i will tell you what kind of person you are,a trainer or a handler for that matter.


First of all i am with Molly on this one.And what she is saying,and i have always belived in this,is that a dog any dog in a high competion showing a lot of stress should not get high points and any Judge who thorows out high points is in my eyes an idiot.

Dogs who show too much stress on the cometition feild have been put through too much stress on the tyraining feild.It is a perfect picture of holes in your training methods or your understaing of the methods you are using.

Frankly,when a dog looks stressed on the competition feild the whole picture looks like shit and it is caused by shit traing. Have a nice one.

You know what PETA did at the UC Davis organic garden? They decided the chickens needed to be out of their runs, allowed to be FREE! so a PETA agent trespassed and opened the gates. Raccoons ate the chickens. NICE work there. Of course it's natural, but I'm not seeing the chickens being terribly free any more.

PETA's agenda includes the extinction of any domestic animal, including chickens and dogs. Therefore, PETA has no place on this board and should be treated as a TROLL. 

Stress comes in a lot of different forms and for god knows how many reasons.  Could be training...temperament...whatever. You can not judge anything by a video on youtube folks. How do you know it wasn't doctored. Not saying it was but,.....Hoovering over a dog....what stress! I have seen plenty...and could name numerous individuals who are just as cupable....top trainers...beginners...male...female! I have run dogs off of fields....were they stressed...YUP! Why were they stressed....we could discuss that for days. Stress is not always a bad thing...and it's not always caused by training...have a wonderful day

 PETA, man just saying that makes me want to go out and cook a big fresh steak cut from the side of a freshley butchard young steer... Or go out and hammer bambies mother with a 300 Win mag for supper, yummy...  or slow barbequed some fresh young hens on the grill slathered with baby rays....

A dog competing in high competition and showes stress that stress is only coming from one source and if this source is not training then this dog is with weak nerves and should have not been in the competition in first place.
 

See judron55 it is not that difficult to figure out when you know what you are looking for,

Remember dogs never lie but people lie all the time.Very simple.Have a nice one. 

 

I was in the gallery at  the championship last week and as disgusted as I was with the meeting on Thursday, I was very impressed with the sharpness of Nathaniel's critiques.  He broke down exercises by every detail and scored them as they should be at a national championship, tough.  I did not attend on Sunday but I am confident that if a 98 point score was given, 98 points were deserved.  There is no way a dog could have had 98 points that weekend if sits were slow, changes of speed were not done crisply, about turns were not tight, motion exercises were not fast, retrieves were not done energetically and send aways not done freely and briskly.  Bottom line, the judge is there to observe the performance of the dog and handler on THAT field on THAT day and critique and score the same.  It is not his duty to speculate what the handler had for breakfast that day.  Training techniques differ by ability of handler/trainer and temperament and hardness of dog.  The response of the dog is the key, did the dog perceive the correction as too much??  If so, it was not a "proper" correction.  A proper correction is the one that works, too much or too little is counter productive and should be avoided.