Does anyone no how INGODDS ALBERTS bitework? - Page 12

ok 1 more little known fact that some of you on here may not know about the 2007 NASS Sieger Show, when Albert went Insufficent. Is that the helper for the male protection is also the helper that he trains with every week and has train with that same helper for as long has he's been here. really shouldn't of felt uncomfortable with the helper, that should say something about his bitework.

Albert may be a SchH3, and VA dog, but before coming to this country, from what I have heard from Julie, Albert was a SAR dog in the Alps. and as far as seeing him at a trial I wouldn't hold my breath, will never happen. The odds of seeing him at a Sieger show again are also very slim, he has his VA, and except for the progeny group he is retired from showing too. If anyone wants to see his bitework you'll have to go watch him at training, actually have to ask to see him bite because he doesn't do much training now either, and it won't be that impressive either.

He is a beautiful dog, if you like his type, but if you are intereted in breeding him for his color. I would have a female with nice color too, because he you breed him with a female who's color isn't that great you may end up with a pups that have washed out saddles when they get older.

if all you are looking for is color, go for Gusto Vom Mittelwest is bite is also better now. If you want to breed for the Von Arlett bloodline and a Mittelwest dog, check out Connerz Vom Mittelwest, he is from Ingodds Agassi, and Bella Vom Mittlewest. From what I hear he is a mean one, all I know is that he was biting evryone including his handler/trainer in Germany when he was there getting titled. still pretty young just got his SchH3 last spring in Germany another quickie though. Just remember these dogs are not trial dogs, and will probably never see one either once they are titled. They are strictly show and breed stock. Fabian was the exception, and only because owners wanted to see him go to trials.

Deeswolf is right VA here doesn't mean much, it's not about the dog is who the breeder knows and how good she S__KS.

 You are so correct

Yes Gusto is a very beautiful dog, very black and a deep red. I heard he lives with a family now, seems to have improved him, he also just got is second VA. All they need is a bit of interaction, and a loving family.

Fabian also very nice tough showline dog, definately has bite. Yasso is another very nice male they have there, he has a great bite, I have heard helpers say one of the hardest they've seen. He also produces some nice pups. but not impressive in protection part of show except for bite. seems very submissive to handlers, another one that seems to be crawling and has problems with the out. did pass at 2008 NASS

Panzer was also a very nice large male, not sure what happened to him, had nice bitework from what I remember. Haven't seen a litter from him in a while. maybe retired, although don't think he's that old. seems to have moved down in her studs list.  Especially for a 2x VA.

Ari is a nice Albert male, did very good in shows as a pup, was VP1 in Conneticut Sieger in 2007, and had a streak of 5 1st place I believe, and went SG1 in San Jose sieger. Seems to be a bit on the small size, I believe he just got is SchH3 in Germany, like most of her dogs and he is Noch Zugelassen like his dad. He'll never work a trial either. yes he started losing his color around 9 months, and I believe judges have commented on that. He bites but I have seen Albert pups that bite alot better, and have better color especially, not sure where they are now. there were quite a few last year around at her training. Maybe off getting a gift SchH3 in Germany.

gsdlover7: Gusto is a very beautiful dog, very black and a deep red.
 

When breeding to him, make sure that your bitch is not an EPI carrier.

Louise

I don't know the dog well enough to know if he is a carrier too.  Guess that is something the breeder if reputable enough would tell someone who wants to breed to him. If not  says something about the breeder. I have heard rumblings about the breeder I the past.

Fair enough Artillery. I agree with most of what you are saying and I respect it. The only problem I still have is your refusal to accept beauty and structure as just as important factors as the working ability of the dog. But I can live with the fact that we may simply disagree there. My impression of Albert was that he was a very nice dog, even tempered, very masculine and structurally personified the standard like I have rarely seen at the shows presented in this country (Working and Show). IMO, as long as the dog isn’t a coward, I can live with their limited working abilities as this is usually handler based training issues that just haven’t been resolved yet or something was physically wrong with the dog during the performance. He did go on and receive his VA under a highly respected judge from Germany and I am taking that into consideration in my support of his importance to the breed in this country as well.

Maywood,

You have brought up several interesting points. You are correct, we will not solve the majority of issues with the GSD on this thread. However, it does bring awareness, and maybe someone will see that speaking up in their respective organization, might be a good thing. Many of us proved that after the 2008 USA Sieger Show.

I agree, yes a show rating under an experienced jugde is a great thing. I have no problem with it at all. I own several V rated dogs. I would also own G and SG rated dogs. The problem is, how the system works. It is corrupt. Seriously, you have to admit that. Dogs that jumped off the sleeve during stick hits at a performance test were allowed to advance to the ring. If you read your rules for a sieger show that is NOT what is suppose to happen. We have dogs with VA status that do NOT deserve the rating of excellent select.

I love black/red dogs, I love the look, the movement, BUT I don't want to add a dog to my breeding program that doesn't BRING THE WHOLE PACKAGE. There are entirely too many breeders out there that are doing this. Then you add people who make excuses, and come up with reasons why a dog cannot complete a simple two bite performance test. That to me is absolutely the worst thing. These dogs have either SchH2 or SchH3 titles. There is no reason why these dogs cannot complete the performance test correctly. Unless, they never actually earned their titles to begin with. I think you would seriously be hard put to find 10 show line dogs in the USA that actually really can work, and could compete or already do compete after their initial SchH3 title. That is unacceptable, to me. I personally only know of five V rated SchH3 SL that could and/or have competed after their initial SchH3 title. Interesting that those 5 dogs are all HOT.

The problem as I see it, is there aren't enough people standing up and saying enough is enough. No more golden retrievers in a GSD body.  The dog is SUPPOSE to have certain traits, and yes the dogs' form should be correct so that the dog can perform its work correctly and for extended period of times. But, what good is beauty if the dog is missing certain traits that are REQUIRED of the breed?

I suggest that people looking to breed do NOT base their choice of a stud on the letters before the dog's name. Even the letters after a dog's name can be misleading. GO OUT AND ACTUALLY WATCH THAT DOG actually work.

Yes, I have read Max's book several times. It is never allowed to gather dust, as I find each time I read it, I find something new that reinforces my convictions that the German Shepherd Dog ACTUALLY is  and SHOULD be a working dog. We could sit here and quote Max for days...but the one thing we ALL must AGREE with is the GSD is suppose to have certain traits DICTATED BY Max...more often than not the majority of German Show Line dog does NOT have those traits.

Deeswolf, Hallelujah and pass the butter....I think you expressed things very eloquently from a perspective of a person that has no bias against the SL dog. What you expressed is EXACTLY how I feel....I also think that the black and red dog is gorgeous...REALLY!!!, but your posted concerns are my sentiments more eloquently articulated....and what makes my blood boil is people who put their heads in the sand about these issues. Don't point to other dog's faults to hide these issues...if you own or want these type dogs than be like DEESWOLF and show real indignation at these issues so they will disappear!

Please be advised that my main concern is this. The explotation of the german shepherd dog has entered imo two different arenas. The show ring and the protection ring. the original purpose for this breed was to be a working (herding dog) and a wonderful companion. Now people out of their disgusting greed for riches are using this dog as an avenue for money, fame and glory. One thing that existed in the beginning was UNITY OF PURPOSE in breeding the dog. Now we have  division and the desire to promote the agenda of greed. My experience has been that being told that "we only breed according to the german standard" and then learning that the german standard is NOT BREEDING UNTITLED FEMALES! I understand that kenneling is a business! I also know that integrety is the foundation stone of business! I too fell under the spell of monetary gain from the possibility of breeding my female. The spell was soon broken and is non existant. The gsdc  the akc the usa and the sv all have differt agendas.  all need to come under one roof and one purpose. the usa judges that only care to line the pockets of sub standard breeders need to be hung. Show line dogs are for the most part not capable working line dogs. And here I am making a division which is used to SHOW THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TWO . I was told the albert fetched 35 k and that is a paltry sum for a top notch dog. I am NOT knocking albert. There has been a large sum of money made off this animal and he does not represent the best of the gsd. The sub standard judging places crowns own these dogs that are not warranted. All of us need to follow the original standards set forth by Max and not chase after the money. When we follow the predefined standards and not cut corners the money will follow. I have been told to NEVER MAKE EXCUSES FOR THE DOG! If the dog will not do the work it is my fault and not the dogs fault. So therefore all the problems the the gsd has is a direct result of our stupidity and greed.