Thoughts on Limited Registration - Page 11

By gigante; "You two dingle balls need to look up arbitrary..... Arbitrariness is the quality of being "determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle. The breeders who have it have already stated why they do it, but they are all liars right, aaykay."

Me thinks thou dost protest too much. As for calling aka and I 'dingle balls', do you think you can get any more juvinile than that? You call us hanging shit balls. Great recommendation for you as a 'breeder'...not.

Kyle, you’re correct. There are way too many variables and way too many options for limited registration to truly work the way it’s supposed to work. I stated earlier, that unless a particular pedigree is really important to you, you can easily find an equal quality puppy with full registration if it’s that important to you, therefore it’s very easy to get around those breeders trying to “make a difference” with limited papers. Yes, there are those that are trying to protect their imported studs, but there are also those that understand the way human nature works and that it’s very possible for someone to slip through the screening process and start breeding a dog. To me, it’s a moral thing. I’m not going to provide you with a female or a male to breed and make unwanted puppies with whatever it is you also own. As a breeder of solid dogs I have enough options that I don’t have to resort to selling to just anyone, just as a buyer has even more options and can buy from many others. If as a buyer you want to guard against the possibility that in the future you might not be able to have the restriction lifted, all the power to you to buy a fully registered puppy, just won’t be from me.

I believe if EVERYONE followed the limited rules, there’d be a huge difference made. I think the customers would quickly adjust because they wouldn’t have any other choice. Until that day, the majority of Americans will still want to buy full registration and breeders will provide them with it. In Germany, the SV has established a culture of following their rules, so people don’t try to “game” the system. And yes, I know what happens in Germany because of it but let’s just assume it doesn’t. In Germany, there is an expectation of titled breeding dogs. In the United States, it’s a cherry on top that comes with a premium price.

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BV: Kyle, you’re correct. There are way too many variables and way too many options for limited registration to truly work the way it’s supposed to work.

Big picture perhaps an argument, but it works every time it shews away a fast buck breeder from using your name. It works every time some one fulfills the contract. It reinforces/restates the idea that there should be a sharp eye on health and trainability every time its read or thought on, yes...... thats minuscule but still pushes the goal.

Kyle: Who in the USA has produced dogs with the consistency of vom Maineiche, Tiekerhook, Wannaer Hohen, Schmiedegarten, Staatsmacht, just name a few. None of these kennels has limited registrations.

Its already been stated german's cant.

As far as the import titled issue yes I think theres a point there. I have seen some breeders use strings and games with Import's to try and bank off the kennel name. Its out there, for sure. Humorously, often they often have no clue what their doing breeding wise, and what is produced is often ehhh.

In the end all this macro dumping is not helpful either. As with everything its more of a case by case. Not all limited breeders are control freaks, liars and cash hounds and not all are guarding. Bad apple, barrel. I know some who use it, they wouldn't fall into those labels for me, while some others do. The idea that an aspirin is no good because it does not repair the broken leg is kinda silly. If its all you have....... Two please.

A little off topic but the reason you don't have consistent producers of dogs in the US again comes down to dog culture. First, there are not enough working homes. Second, not enough clubs or trainers with the ability to turn a genetically exceptional dog into a national/world level trained dog. Third, the good dogs are fairly spread out and not many breeders are going to be spending the extra dollars to breed to a dog further away because in the end the puppies will still be nice and more than likely are going into pet homes anyways (see the first reason I listed).

It has also almost become taboo to breed to winners in the United States. Or to breed to dogs that are proving that they are good producers as well. Plus, if we do end up back massing on a single dog it is harder than in Germany to find dogs that aren't related due to again, lack of working homes that are doing something with their dogs. There just aren't those "surprise" studs or bitches coming out of no where with decent and different lines in the US.

End of the day, there are more decent working kennels than there are high level trainers in the US. They're all competing to catch the eyes of one of those trainers, and also competing with what is coming out of Germany. Those German dogs also tend to bring newer and more diverse lines into the country which is more beneficial to the handler who might want to stud the dog out in the future.

Concur major factors.

Gigante, how has *your* 'limited registration' policy made the breed better? Or, what has your policy done for your dogs' wellbeing? What have you done 'for the breed' besides issuing 'limited reg' to prevent your progeny from having akc reg litters?

Joanro

Producing really good dogs, betters the breed, short of that everything else is supportive.

I've been silently following this thread, but now, I have a few questions. Earlier, somebody said they offer their dogs/pups on co-ownership, I believe, and give out full registration.

Does that work better than limited registration? Can you register a co-owned dog with a different registry like you can with limited? Have any issues risen from this?

I read somewhere that someone's co-owner forged their signature with the AKC on a litter out of a female that was too young, and although the AKC acknowledged it was a forgery, the litter remained registered.

It just seems to me like greed will find a way around everything, and the registries don't seem to care about anything other than getting money from resulting registrations. So, has anyone actually found a fool proof way of protecting their lines in case their screening process did have some unsavory character(s) fall through the cracks? If not, then what really is the point of giving out limited?