Shiloh Shepherds...Warlock/King Dobermans - Page 11

I'm afraid you missed my story upstream about the Shiloh owner who was having reno's done on his house. His dog was fine with the contractor as long as the owner was present. But, then the owner went out on an errand, and the contractor came back to get something he'd forgotten. The dog kept him pinned in a corner until the owner came home. Didn't bite him, just threatened to every time he moved.

No, I'm not saying every Shiloh would have acted that way,  but neither would every GSD.  I read recently about a lady who purchased a Sch. III trained GSD, to protect her from her ex-husband.

The ex broke into her home while she was out, and stole everything he could get his hands on...INCLUDING THE DOG!!

I like that  line from Tina....the  'Dogs from Germany were aggressive'  part.

It is a Working dog correct?  And its primary responsibility is to protect  & serve its master and his family? 

And Tina, Working 'Types' are permissible. 

Thats why there is a written  Standard,  and even amongst working dogs, there is variance-in color, size, shape, physical makeup.    This standard allows for variance.   But the common denominator is WORKING ABILITY, in the Working dogs.

What is intriguing most to me,  & motive for her Shiloh, her dissatisfaction with the GSD Show lines-dogs that lack the real drive, nerve and courage of the working lines...but yet that is exactly  (along the lines) what she created, imo.    An oversized Showline dog with limited to no working ability. 

At least some of the better Showlines can do some work and are able to title..thats not a knock, just mo & .02c

 

 

[sigh]  It seems to me you're saying that 'working' equates with protection and schutzhund.  Although a Shiloh will protect his home and family, they are not the dog you'd pick for those two jobs. Not the current version of the Shiloh, anyway.

But what about SARS, medical service dogs, and therapy dogs? Shilohs do very well at each of these jobs. They also compete in agility and obedience, and many have the aptitude for herding, though I at the moment, I don't know of any that actually have titles other than the HIC.

 

WHY do the shiloh disciples feel so compelled to come on a gsd forum to rant about their shaggy dogs? The constant quoting the Gospel According to Tina approaches evangelical proportions. I must go check the criteria for cults, but if these Barberians don't come close, I'd be suprised. Give it a rest--or go onto a shiloh forum to preach your gospel. The rest of us are going to maintain our infidel status, as far as shilohs are concerned.

Sunsilver, I was told of all types of stories about these dogs, and I believe that it what they were, stories with some form of truth probably. The fact remains, after the second washout, I did research that I should have done in the first place, and determined that these were just pet quality dogs that were being bred. I was unable to talk to one owner that had a trained dog that could provide a valid referral to their "trainer" (let alone a decoy/helper). Anyone that has trained a dog knows that you can only take the dog so far by yourself, sooner or later you need a trainer (helper) to bring out the distrust.

Surely you wouldn't expect a SCH 3 dog to protect anyone/thing without being cross trained. Furthermore, I wouldn't expect a dog to settle into the new home and take it as his territory until at least three to six weeks, depending on the circumstances and dog. Some may take longer. Any less and I would suspect weak nerves. That was a case of someone being sold a dog under false hopes/assumptions.

Please bear in mind, I paid for my lesson very well. I have not met one SHILOH Shepherd (non AKC)that was anything more than pet quality at best. Her breed was still in developmental stages and should not have been sold. They should have been housed and placed with people until she developed what she was looking for.

I did not come on the database in 2002 and place post blasting them, as I shouldn't have. It was my fault. I should have done my research and homework. But I cannot sit back and watch someone sink that much money into a dog under the pretenses that it possesses the nerves and ability to be a protection dog/natural protector/guardain or whatever the claims were back then.

Things may have changed by now, but I highly doubt it. Unless there were some serious working lines introduced, inbreeding, culling and so on, I doubt anything has changed. You can not just introduce new lines that possess traits that you find desireable and not know the history of the dogs, and surely you can not know what they produce unless you retain and cull regularly. In the process training the retained dogs in protection work. She possessed the background, why wasn't the follow up put into the dogs?

"But what about SARS, medical service dogs, and therapy dogs? Shilohs do very well at each of these jobs."

 

So do rescue/shelter dogs. There are several breeds that possess these qualities. Several rescue dogs from mixed lineage are trained in these every year.

 

"Although a Shiloh will protect his home and family, they are not the dog you'd pick for those two jobs. Not the current version of the Shiloh, anyway."

This is what they were advertised/promoted and sold for. How can a weak nerve bag protect his family and home? AAAAH, i almost forgot, just like a chihuahua, just more expensive and a bigger liability.

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09 - 22:01	Sunsilver Posts: 2019 Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 09:04 pm
It seems to me you're saying that 'working' equates with protection and schutzhund.  Although a Shiloh will protect his home and family, they are not the dog you'd pick for those two jobs.

 

That is Exactly What Im saying and you dont even see the contradiction in your own post.   Weak Nerves or lack of courage does not a protection dog make.  I believe that Drive-Prey, defense & Fight were Bred OUT of the Shiloh from all appearances.

Max and the Breed Founders required Breeding Working tests for GSDs.  Schutzhund was THE test used.

Please let me clarify my post. When I said 'protection', I meant a trained guard dog, like a security company would use for patrol, or one of those dogs being sold for thousands of dollars to protect the homes of people with more money than brains. That's not the sort of work you'd expect a Shiloh to do.

But they DO do a good job of protecting their own homes. Would YOU want to break into someone's home if you knew there was a 120 - 140 lb. Shiloh behind that door? Some just make a good threat with the barking, but there are others who will take it to the next level. Ma's stud, Acer, is one of them (see her post above.)

And some Shilohs have enough prey drive that they cannot be placed in homes with cats or other small animals!

One of Tina's main goals was to have a dog that would make a good family dog. Here's what one of her breeders responded to a person asking about the breed:

These dogs are incredibly family oriented, love children and want to meet and
exceed your expectations.  They are great communicators and the people that
enjoy teaching and interacting with their dogs, do the best with Shilohs.  

In the training classes my puppy owners have taken their Shilohs to, their
trainers tell them that this is the most intelligent dog I have ever had in
class.

Kai, my son, when he was 2 years old fed the dogs and made them sit prior to
receiving their food dish.  If they broke the sit, he would say no, pick the
bowl back up, and take it from them.  He would again ask them to sit and then
make them wait, after he put the bowl down and then tell them okay, that they
could start eating. 

So, the dogs no longer have the drive for Schutzhund. How many people do Schutzhund? You know the answer to that!

How many just want a good pet, that's child safe, but large enough to scare off thieves?  Yet, smart enough to be easily trained? A lot more, that's for sure!

 

SchH was DESIGNED To be a Working BREEDING TEST, to eliminate poor specimens from the gene pool and evaluate breed stock

I dont care if a 140 lb dog will bark at an intruder...Any dog will do that. 

Will the dog protect with his life, fight, overcome adversity and give his life if push comes to shove and the intruder isnt 'scared off'?

We both know the answer to that question. Shilohs  Are inferior Working dogs, whether home protection, personal protection, Police K9 or Military dogs.

I have no use for them. If I wanted a companion dog, Id get a Golden, Bassett or Irish wolfhound.