Questions On Beauceron Color Genes - Page 1

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Lunastar

by Lunastar on 22 February 2017 - 17:02

I'm having a hard time with getting clear information on possible color genes for the Beauceron, so can anyone help out? So far this is what I have:
Black and rust Beauceron: atat BB CC DD EE kk mm SS tt
Blue merle and rust Beauceron: atat BB CC DD EE kk Mm SS tt
Double merle and rust Beauceron: atat BB CC DD EE kk MM SS tt

But since fawn/tan in a lighter shade of red that color should exist for the point markings, should it not:
Black and rust Beauceron carrying the tan gene: atat BB Ccch DD EE kk MM SS tt
Black and tan Beauceron: atat BB cchcch DD EE kk MM SS tt
Blue merle and rust Beauceron carrying the tan gene: atat BB Ccch DD EE kk Mm SS tt
Blue merle and tan : atat BB cchcch DD EE kk Mm SS tt

However, some people have argued that there is also a black masking gene in Beaucerons like there is in German Shepherds:
Black and rust Beauceron with black mask: atat BB CC DD EmEm kk mm SS tt

Other people say that any black masking gene was long ago bred out. So I'm not really sure who is right. And also with the double merle color, would the dog not actually be an white extreme piebald color wise:
atat BB CC DD EE kk MM swsw tt

There has also been mention of Beauceron color dilutions in Isabella/tawny/fawn and blue/grey, that are said to have been bred out, still being born in those colors:
Blue and rust Beauceron: atat Bb CC dd EE kk mm SS tt
Isabella and rust Beauceron: atat bb CC dd EE kk mm SS tt

Is this true, or are they taking about a crossbred mutt from a Beauceron and a Doberman maybe, since the Doberman was created from the Beauceron and still has dilution colors?

susie

by susie on 22 February 2017 - 18:02

Luna, I know nothing about color genetics of the Beauceron, but I doubt there is a close relationship to the Dobermann.

I learned the Dobermann was "created" in Apolda, Thuringia, East Germany. 

The "breeder" made use of any "sharp" dogs he was able to get, mostly Pinschers and some Rottweiler type dogs, later on local herders, too.

A lot of breeds, a lot of mutts, maybe even a Beauceron in the mixture...

After all I am no expert - do you have any reliable source? Maybe DNA tests? 

Never too late to learn ....


Lunastar

by Lunastar on 22 February 2017 - 19:02

Actually, it's a fact that during the time the Doberman was created, Beaucerons were already living in Germany and very little actual Pinscher blood was used to make the Doberman funnily enough. Here is more info on how the Doberman was created: https://www.gentledoberman.com/doberman-pinscher-information/history/breeds-made-doberman-pinscher

And I'm asking what colors can occur in the Beauceron breed in general. Not about a certain dog that could be DNA tested for colors. For some reason breeders are giving out little, to no info on Beauceron colors. So people are guessing on color genes and it's really annoying trying to find the truth. I'm working on a Beauceron coat color guide project with a friend, so no actual real dogs are involved. Just the genetic colors that real dogs can come in. So I was hoping by posting on the Beauceron forum, an actual Beauceron breeder would see it and maybe clear up the confusion. The Beauceron Coat Color Guide, will have computer made art of Beaucerons in all color types genetically possible for the breed, along with color names and other info. This way, there be no guessing and people can know what colors there are to choose from when looking to buy a Beauceron. It could also be used by actual breeders to advertise what colors their breed comes in. My friend is also a huge fan of the breed, but does not have the money or space for an actual Beauceron. So she likes making art of them instead.


susie

by susie on 22 February 2017 - 20:02

Good luck with your project, hopefully some Beauceron enthusiasts will help.

Off topic, but the German written standard about the history of the Dobermann doesn't mention the Beauceron...


by anawd on 23 February 2017 - 22:02

I know Beauceron can come in red and rust and blue and rust. I'm sure they could come in fawn and rust as well, but since the red are pretty rare themselves, getting a red that is also a dilute is going to be unlikely.

I'm assuming these colors are the same genetically as the Doberman.

So (only worrying with the main colors/dilute)
Red would be either:
bbDD or bbDd
Fawn would be:
bbdd
Blue would be:
BBdd or Bbdd

All of which could also come in harlequin/merle

Hope that is helpful.





 


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