No Obedience until...... - Page 1

So I have a question. Some people have told me you shouldn't really start OB until the dog can do a bark and hold.They had their reasons behind that, but I also know some dogs, awesome working dogs who've done a lot of OB at young ages, some who did basics at young ages, ect.  I have already started a little bit on sitz and hier with Anubis, and platz. We haven't done very many sessions yet, but he learns fast. Some have told me....not members in our club, but others have said just do basics now, my friend Krista Wade says she starts at 14 weeks on puppies...some have said wait until about 7 months.Though Krista has also had a lot of sucess with her dogs and is a great trainer.  Nothing but confusion here. I have heard....never experienced, but that dogs who have too much OB too early are constantly looking to their handler, more dependent, and almost looking to see if they are doing something right in a way. I've heard a lot of things though.  So should I keep doing the basic sitz,platz, and hier?  When do I start adding the fuss? and Blieb? I do realize the sitz and platz will eventually be expected to be like Blieb.  I don't know all that goes into the whole OB part of SchH as I'm still learning things, but do you guys teach Blieb? or do you just do sitz and platz in place of that? 

  What they were trying to tell you NO correction untill the dog can do bark and hold and first should be when you try to fuss him away  from helper.    you can teach him practically anything you want as long as there is no correction and dog want to do it .Years ago I was at T Floyd seminar and he had a very young puppy  I think around10 weeks old to do all the OB and more

I can tell by your questions and the way you ask them, that you are confused.

That is okay.

Well... Let's see...  To really go deep in addressing your concerns would take a book.

"Formal" obedience, like the stuff you see in the trial, should wait. However, it is never early to teach the puppy manners.

I see that you are using a lot of German words. That is okay, but if you choose one word for a command - then stick to it. If you use Platz for down, then platz is platz for the rest of his life.

What you REALLY should be doing is - foundation work in obedience, that is - teaching him obedience but not corrections. Also, you observe how the dog learn and apply your teaching to it, mould it in a way that the dog learn something from you every time you interact with it.

A lot of stuff and commands can be taught, sit, down, stay, come, track, by my left foot (or Fuss, as people call it), heel (not too much, just to build a foundation), bringing the ball, giving you the ball, taking the ball, dropping the ball, holding the ball calmly in the mouth (no chewing) etc...

Let me address specific questions you asked...

"Some people have told me you shouldn't really start OB until the dog can do a bark and hold." -- Ignore that advice. You can start fun and games, stuff that builds the foundation - that will much later become what you call obedience as soon as you get the dog. The trick is not to overload the pup and do it onbly for 2 or 3 minutes but every day.

"I also know some dogs, awesome working dogs who've done a lot of OB at young ages, some who did basics at young ages, ect." - Yes, they got their foundation built ata  young age. Puppies are like little kids, they soak up everything, good and bad, the trick is to teach them a lot of good with minimal bad.

"So should I keep doing the basic sitz,platz, and hier? " Yes, by all means. AS LONG as you keep it fun, short and engaging and quit at a high point before dog's attention starts to wander. Always end the session on a high note.

"When do I start adding the fuss?" Teach every command as a separate exercise for now. You wil chain them together later into the "formal rountine".

You can start fuss tomorrow. Get a hot dog in your hand and guide him in the position. Give him a nibble when he does it. Then say hee or whatever command you use, keep the hot dog close to his nose, start with your left foot and walk 4 or 5 paces. Then give him moe hot dog and finish the exercise. That is all you should do for now. But you do it every day. Then, in a week, go 8 paces, then in another week 10 paces. Etc... Then, in a month or so introduce a turn. Lots of variations here.

Bleib, as in "stay there and don't move till I call you"? That bleib? I would wait with that till the dog is say around 6 months. Because as soon as you move away from him at this age, he is 99% guaranteed to folow you and be close to you.

Ignore that part for you. At around say 6 months you should introduce it with his food bowl. Oh, by the way, ever since my dog was a young pup he never got his bowl of food "for free". He always had to work for it. That means, if the dog knows ONE command (for now). say, he knows a sit. Then, don't just give him his dinner. Bring the bowl to him, look at him and get his attention. while holding the bowl. Say sit ONCE. As soon as he sits, shove the bowl of front of him and praise and let him eat.

When he knows down, then you say that and give him food. When he knows something ese, you do that.

When he reaches 6 months. Come up with the food in your hand.... Say Down. The dog downs. Say Bleib. You can use a hand signal of you do that. Wait 5 seconds and give him his food. TDon't overkill it int he beginning.

Then, like with every command, increase the "waiting" or bleib time longer and longer, add distractions, like jump over him , run in circles over him, go away a few feet etc... Make him "work" or do something youw ant him to do and he gets what he wants you get what you want, everybody wins. Incorporate that in his life, the only thing the dog gets free here is water.

Adi thanks for the advice. Thats how I taught my Huskies to stay, starting with the food dish I mean. Anubis turns 6 months on the 3rd of July.  For some reason stay has always been my favorite command to teach to a dog. It's just with all of this for this type of work I didn't know when to teach what basically. With my Huskies or other peoples dogs I've worked with it's been for basic home use or just for use out when walking the dogs in public and not for competitions like it will be for Anubis later on.  I've got a few videos of me doing drive building exercises with him, I'm sure I'll eventually be posting OB videos with him later on also. Again thanks for the advice.

The question is, do you teach your children the basices of life starting when they are 10 years old instead of gradually from a baby
Then you will have answered your own questions with the Pup
Ad,s advice is good so not much more  can be said on this by me, Teach it slowly as it is young, but make everything a play time for the Pup, and it will be fine
Steve

Good morning,you have been given some good advice.If you want to see some puppies in action at 10 weeks old go to the mohnweise web site and go to there video section and see what Goerge does with his puppies at that age.He starts all the exercises yes even foosing but with NO corrections,just lots of fun and good things.I got caught up in that nonsense as well with my young dog.The club I use to belong to would tell me to just build drive the first year and I wasted alot of time  to the point where I lost interest.You must be with a club that you TRUST and RESPECT otherwise  you will be asking all kinds of questions to everybody else and that will confuse you.Try to attend some seminars when you can,you will learn different things from the real pros.ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS when you do attend these seminars regardless of some idiots who huff and puff when a newbie asks questions.I wish you and your dog lots of success,good luck.

Jami is so food motivated, it was really easy to start the short sessions of ob when she was little. When I say short maybe five minutes max. I made it really fun for her. I knew by the time she was bigger I needed some control on her. When she is in drive she can pull me off my feet at 10 month.
Always,
Cee

At Air Capitol Schutzhund Club in Wichita, Kansas you must have your dog trained in obedience first, then you can do the protection portion.  They want you to be in control of your dog at all times.  Echo is working on being obedient, but my oh my, she is a brat!

I've never trained a dog for Schutzhund, or anything even close, but have trained a few dogs in obedience.  I've always started young with obedience, not the formal stuff, of course, but I believe that down, sit, and stay have their place, and can mean the difference between frustration with a dog that you can't settle down at all, and having a wonderful young companion.  As most here know, I don't have a GSD at this time.  I am still researching for the right lines and the right kennel, etc.  But the Border Collie/Aussie cross girl we have right now, and the Alaskan malamute belonging to my stepson, have both learned sit, down, and stay, which is really useful at feeding time and anytime the humans are eating and the dogs are around.

Since I haven't needed to build confidence for bitework or anything like that, I use some food to get the behaviors I want, though not much, and I do reposition them when they break.  But It's important, regardless of what you do with a puppy, keep it short!  Beginning stays are only a few seconds at most.

Just my suggestions, again, based on everyday pet obedience and not on a future SchH dog.

Crys