Need Underground/Invisable fence buying advice - Page 1

My husband has a Czech dog that we cannot contain when he's outside, the dog primarily lives inside but outside he is horrible.  We live on acreage and do not need a fence for our other dogs as they are never out unsupervised and we are out in the boonies.  However, the Czech dog runs all the way to the neighbor's (my sister and brother-in-law's) house, usually via woods but sometimes he uses the road, which is more dangerous than I am willing to live with.  My husband worships the dog.  We tried six feet fencing and he can and will jump it.  Tried teaching him to jump it only on command, didn't work.  The dog does react to a shock collar, but if he slides out the door without the collar or you don't have the remote in hand, he's gone.  Though I am new to Schutzhund, I am not new to German Shepherds and I've never had a dog that I could not teach to stay within boundries or at least stop on command.  I've been working with this dog for months, others have worked with him, and he still runs like an idiot.  So I am at my breaking point, I've never had a dog hit by a car and I would really rather not start now.  Plus my 80 year old grandmother lives with my sister so a hyper dog running in their yard when she might be outside is very bad.  We want to try underground fencing.  The dog is 3 years old.  Besides there would be an added bonus, my older female is super with even the weak underground fences (tried at friend's house once), but she listens and stops when I call her, this dog does not.  Anyone have ANY (good or bad) experience with electric/underground fences?  I am looking at a Petsafe Stubborn Dog model, but I'd really like to hear some experieces before I go buy one.  Any advice appreciated.  I am not a fan of underground fencing, but no one is having any luck with working this dog into staying in our yard or responding when called once he starts to run next door.  PMs or emails welcome.
Thanks all,
Nichole

Underground fencing has it's pros and cons. I've had one, it worked well for a little while with the dogs I had at the time. No need to explain why it quit working. You do have to keep up on the boundary training. It won't keep other dogs off your property. It works the same to keep your dog out as it does to keep your dog in. For a high drive determined runner, I wouldn't try it. Once he learns he can just take off and run through it, he will. I've had an escape artist and they are not fun.
If you've already got a 6 foot fence, I'd modify that fence to keep him in. A hotwire across the top or add another section about a foot tall but angled inwards about 45 degrees.

A dog can and will run right through an electronic fence if he wants to badly enough. You don't keep the Czech dog's e-collar on all the time. Are you even willing to keep a fence collar on all the time?

Best advice I have is the same as mobjack's. Go to a farm and ranch supply store and buy what you need to put a hotwire across the top of the fence. Or add another section on top.

I had a Fox Terrible and a Standard Poodle in the city - both of them went right through the fence whenever they decided it was worth their while to get the shock.  Ended up building a fence.  With an underground electric fence placed INSIDE the s
6 foot fence, though, youshould be able to stop the jumping over the fence because it will likely reduce the physical ability to prepare for a jump, I'm guessing. 

I have several GSD and Mals trained on my fence system.  The secret is not to buy a cheap system.  The sytem I have has a zone the raises the charge if they walk the line to prevent the dogs from running the batteries dead.  It also has a feature that if the run out, it shocks them every few seconds until they return.  Never have had a proplem with the dogs escaping and they will not even get close to the line.  Make sure to train the dogs to it and not just expect it to work.

Wow!  those are cool features... when I bought my system - it was expensive - but it was around 1996- 1997 and I don't think that level of sophistication even existed.  Sounds like they've made some considerable technological improvements. 

Sam, I won't publicly say what kind of e-collar I bought but it's not a Dogtra or a Tritronics.  It cost about $175 and had I focused as much on brands as I did learning to correctly use the collar, I would have never bought this collar (Anyone with a Dogtra or a Tritronics laying around want to sell it?)  The collar requires frequent battery charges, so I can't leave it on full time.  Trust me, my life would be much better if I could.  I live in fear of the dog sneaking out the door with no e-collar on.  Also, I have a kennel for him that is 6 feet tall, about 10 feet wide and 25 feet long.  I own about 4 acres surrounded by family property and until this dog, we had no need for a fence.  My dogs are never outside unsupervised and they stay right with you.  If I put a fence up, there would be a barrier between them and my uncle's field (I'd have to fence at my property line) they love to run in and that's not fair to my two dogs who do behave, plus fencing four acres isn't cheap.
Double M K9, I sent you a PM.  I think the system you have is like what I am looking for.  Money is not the biggest issue, quality is.  I know there are great underground fences out there now-a-days, I just don't know which brands.
Thanks,
Nichole

get a choke collar and koehler's book.  in four or five weeks you will have no need for an invisible fence.  someone is going to tell you that it is a cruel method.  but it is no more cruel than shocking him with an e collar or allowing him to get hit by a car.

Nicole, a few tips for you if you're going to try it.
A larger "safe" area is better than a small one.
If you install it yourself, spend the extra money and go get better quality wire than is supplied with the fence.
Test it your self very well before you put the collar on the dog. You can just walk the boundary with the collar in your hand and listen for the beeps or feel the vibration. Make sure you've got no weak spots in the boundary or hot spots in the safe area.
Have a clearly defined visible or terrain boundary that coincides with the invisible boundary. Like the driveway, a tree line, ditch or something the dog can relate to. It makes training much easier.
Train the boundary longer than you think you need to before you trust the dog off leash and keep up with your refresher training.
Good luck.