black/red x black/red = sable puppy?????? - Page 1

Is this even possible?  Everything I have read says no.  The puppy's parents are definitely black/red and the puppy looks like a very light golden sable.  Has a darker stripe down the middle of the back too.

Any thoughts?
Thanks!
Kelly

not possible.

Not possible, unless someone put the wrong color down on the pedigree,
I've seen dogs that at a glance look black & red, but are actually sable, with a saddle back

Have you seen the parents in person?

Paula

No, not possible. Sable is dominant over black/tan (red) so if either parent had one copy of the sable gene the phenotype would be sable, not black/tan. "Red" is just a darker shade of tan and is not genetically distinct from tan in the sense of color heritability. I have a table of GSD coat color heritability that I can send you if you want to see it all laid out. Got pictures of the dogs??

I am saying it is possible, as I have seen it happen before. You mean to tell me that chart knows every gene, trait, phenotype, recessive or dominant. The chart is a good gauge for the outcome but it plainly states that it is not one hundred percent right all of the time. Sometimes for whatever reason a gene that has been dormant over several generations will all of a sudden show up.  Even though I despise them, how do you explain the panda shepherds that are out there. They have been tested and are AKC reg. Never say what nature can't do as it will surly prove you wrong

Well if the parents were TRUE black and reds, I would sure want to do DNA testing to make sure momma did not have a secret lover.

sable is dominant over every other color in this breed.  This is a FACT not theory.  If the puppy is sable, it inherited a sable gene from one of it's parents.  If one of the parents carried a sable gene to give to the puppy, the parent would BE A SABLE since that sable gene is dominant over every other color.  So two black/tans can NEVER produce any sable puppies unless they are bred to a sable dog.  ZERO POSSIBILITY unless one of the parents is in fact a patterned sable and not black/tan.

grgtwn - the dogs you are describing are WHITE.  The white dog is either a sable minus pigment, or black/tan, or black minus the pigment in the hairs (causing them to be white).  Your white dogs that produced sable were sable genetically.  Breeding white dogs is a whole nother ball game in color genetics.

getting a sable pup from two black/tan parents, or two black parents, or one black and one black/tan parent - is not possible.

molly

Look at the Father of the GSD and his lines.  http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/1208.html  Every PUREBRED GSD HAS SABLE AND WHITE IN THEIR LINES! Therefore white is NOT a different ball game.  That is what I have been trying to say to you people.You can NOT ACCOUNT for dormant genes that show up every once in a while. You also did not address the two black dogs having a white or the panda color mutation. There is too many variablesand mutations  to say for ONE HUNDRED PERCENT that this can not happen. Do not believe everything you read. Just becuase it is on a chart, does no make it so. Listening to you , if you have one sable parent, then they will be sable. This is simply not true.

Careful grgtwnbaxly!  Don't argue with Molly.  You'll lose!  ecs