Opinions on the Valiantdale Dogs, Please - Page 1

I can't believe what I'm seeing here: American bred dogs without a trace of Lance of Fran-Jo in their pedigree, and the pedigrees sprinkled with famous names like Lierberg, Busecker Schloss, and even Mutz!  Oh, and no Arminius, Wienerau, Wildsteiger Land, Kirschental or von Batu!

(Okay, found ONE von Batu dog, but it ain't Ursus!)

The American side has some of the great foundation kennels of the past: Long Worth, Rocky Reach, Cosalta, San Miguel and Yoncalla.


The kennel specializes in black and silver dogs, but has some very nice looking black dogs as well: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/498293.html

Thoughts, anyone?

I have met Kathy up at the Tulsa clubs and she has some lovely dogs. Don't really know much about their bloodlines, but I know she does all the appropriate health testing and does as much training as she can as well.


http://www.valiantdale.com/index.htm

I've actually met a couple of these.  Nice dogs, sound temperaments, good workers even in an Oklahoma summer (which is saying something on black dogs!)  She's not kidding when she says "Big," though.

Yeah, I really don't get this thing about 'old fashioned' GSD's being oversized!  I'm sure back in the 60's, there was a range of sizes in GSD's, just as there is now. Some people were stricter about enforcing it, too...anyone remember why Vello zu den Sieben Faulen never got his koer?

I like her dogs, I had a couple who purchased a blk/silver girl from my Leerburg breeding, they bought a male from this kennel and eventually bred them together, awesome puppies.    she has some dogs with nice drives, then some low drive dogs, but I wouldn't have an issue buying a pup frm her.  I have thought about it for years! 

The dog on the database is quite a looker. The dogs on her site, however, dont really ring my bell. To each their own, I guess.  I know very little about the AKC type foundation dogs, if its Lance is who got the ball rolling for what we see today in the AKC ring, more power to her for staying away from that line.

Funny you bring up "old fashioned" with size. I am really quite tired of seeing ads for breeders who claim to have "old style" GSDs who are 100lbs+.  Old style, eh? Horand doesn't look like he was 100+ to me.

edit: I notice some VERY tight linebreeding in that dog's parents. Worth discussion, if you know those lines well, which I do not, but I am never impartial to being enlightened.

I would like to see the pedigrees more complete than they are, but it looks like they are trying to stay away from too much linebreeding.

Lance was indeed responsible for the state of the American lines today. It is almost impossible to find an American GSD without Lance in the pedigree multiple times. Lance carried a bucketload of bad genes, too: missing teeth, epi, blue and liver recessive, weak nerves. The excessive linebreeding/inbreeding that took place on Lance and his progeny brought all these genes to the surface, along with the extreme angulation. See Louise Penery's posts in this thread here to get an idea of what happened:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/155986.html#156544

Lance was U.S. GV for 1967. This was the same year Bodo v. Lierberg came to the States. This superb dog, who was German, Belgian AND Dutch Sieger, could manage no better than Special Select in America. Most breeders preferred the Lance lines, though a few breeders did use the 'B' litter  von Lierberg (Bernd and Bodo, sired by Vello). As you can see, Valiantdale was one of the breeders who realized the value of these lines.

Alas, most of these lines have disappeared in America, though they are still present in the German imports, especially the working lines.

This is where the great split began between German and American lines.

I wouldn't mind breeding my bitch to one of the Valiantdale black studs, if they'd allow it.


"I am really quite tired of seeing ads for breeders who claim to have "old style" GSDs who are 100lbs+.  Old style, eh? Horand doesn't look like he was 100+ to me."

Oh, yes, totally agree on that!  The Briarwood dogs especially are out and out obese, as well as being oversized!

Boss passed away some time ago. 

Vickie
www.PowerHausKennels.com

i am glad to see that  the big dogs are not not old german . every  large dog i have seen was not real smart  . seen sow many adds sayind they are old style