This is a placeholder text
Group text
by marjorie on 14 March 2009 - 16:03
I am going to try to update and educate all about the DM of the GSD, and point put where we are now, with GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG MYELOPATHY! ( Please note I said GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG myelopathy, which is different than the DM of Corgis and Boxers, as evidenced by test results!) It will probably take several posts...
Dr C does believe that some GSDM patients, but not all have a change in the SOD1 region that the Broad Institute has just now reported. However, now that they have reported their findings, it does confirm what Dr C thought and has said in the past. The pathologic changes in Corgis (and probably Boxers) are not the same as those in the GSD and probably represent different diseases. As such, DR C believes we should be very cautious about assuming that work on Corgis is relevant to the GSD, just as he previously said in reverse. They did find the SOD1 change in 4 GSDs, but that is too small a number to suggest it is the same trait DR C tracks. In fact, Dr C's research suggests that Corgis and Boxers are different from other dogs. Also, he is still not convinced that Corgi and Boxer Myelopathies are motor unit diseases. However, they do suggest that Corgis do not have the IgG or complement (C3) accumulation in the region of lesions as has been shown in the GSD. Dr C's feeling has always been that DM is a mixture of diseases which are lumped together and GSDM is perhaps unique in the GSD (although his data and others suggest that some other large breed dogs may get a DM that is very similar to GSDM). Certainly, the work in Corgis has not provided data to compel him to change his opinion.
DR C's own data (which has been confirmed by others) shows that GSDM has a number of features which make in an immune related disease including CSF IgG elevations with oligoclonal bands. The protein levels in lumbar CSF are elevated and most of these elevations are due to inflammatory proteins or the consequences of immune reaction in the CNS. He sees elevations of myelin basic protein, acetylcholinesterase and neurofilaments which indicate fairly active loss of myelin and axons. On the other hand, neither EMG, histopathology nor neural MRI examinations have ever revealed motor unit disease in these dogs even late in the disease. The changes in M wave reported in Corgis may merely be from UMN atrophy rather than indicate a specific motor unit disease. So, he thinks we have to be careful in concluding that SOD1 is the major player in GSDM even if it might be in Corgis.
.DR C has been working on collaborations with researchers in Britain to help confirm his previous findings in the DRB1 region of the GSD genome. He is also confirming that in additional patients which he has seen since the initial disclosure of hiswork. Unfortunately, these experiments are still in progress; however, there is nothing that has occurred to change his original observations and he is confident that he will complete this work in the near future.
So, Dr C does believe that he can confirm that some GSDs do have SOD1 changes, but those changes alone do not appear to explain the majority of the patients whom he sees with GSDM. He also do not know how many GSDs might have these changes who do not have GSDM, but he suspicions that number is substantial. That means that while the SOD1 finding in Corgis and some GSDs is interesting in the GSDs, he should not focus all his attentions on SOD1. The other genomic changes he has seen in GSDM dogs may, in fact, explain GSDM better than SOD1. On the other hand, SOD1 might explain Corgis and separate the myelopathy seen in Corgis from GSDM patients, since it may explain why the disease in Corgis is not that same as in the GSD. So, like he use to say to the Corgi people, if you want to know about Corgis, you should study them. If you want to kn
Dr C does believe that some GSDM patients, but not all have a change in the SOD1 region that the Broad Institute has just now reported. However, now that they have reported their findings, it does confirm what Dr C thought and has said in the past. The pathologic changes in Corgis (and probably Boxers) are not the same as those in the GSD and probably represent different diseases. As such, DR C believes we should be very cautious about assuming that work on Corgis is relevant to the GSD, just as he previously said in reverse. They did find the SOD1 change in 4 GSDs, but that is too small a number to suggest it is the same trait DR C tracks. In fact, Dr C's research suggests that Corgis and Boxers are different from other dogs. Also, he is still not convinced that Corgi and Boxer Myelopathies are motor unit diseases. However, they do suggest that Corgis do not have the IgG or complement (C3) accumulation in the region of lesions as has been shown in the GSD. Dr C's feeling has always been that DM is a mixture of diseases which are lumped together and GSDM is perhaps unique in the GSD (although his data and others suggest that some other large breed dogs may get a DM that is very similar to GSDM). Certainly, the work in Corgis has not provided data to compel him to change his opinion.
DR C's own data (which has been confirmed by others) shows that GSDM has a number of features which make in an immune related disease including CSF IgG elevations with oligoclonal bands. The protein levels in lumbar CSF are elevated and most of these elevations are due to inflammatory proteins or the consequences of immune reaction in the CNS. He sees elevations of myelin basic protein, acetylcholinesterase and neurofilaments which indicate fairly active loss of myelin and axons. On the other hand, neither EMG, histopathology nor neural MRI examinations have ever revealed motor unit disease in these dogs even late in the disease. The changes in M wave reported in Corgis may merely be from UMN atrophy rather than indicate a specific motor unit disease. So, he thinks we have to be careful in concluding that SOD1 is the major player in GSDM even if it might be in Corgis.
.DR C has been working on collaborations with researchers in Britain to help confirm his previous findings in the DRB1 region of the GSD genome. He is also confirming that in additional patients which he has seen since the initial disclosure of hiswork. Unfortunately, these experiments are still in progress; however, there is nothing that has occurred to change his original observations and he is confident that he will complete this work in the near future.
So, Dr C does believe that he can confirm that some GSDs do have SOD1 changes, but those changes alone do not appear to explain the majority of the patients whom he sees with GSDM. He also do not know how many GSDs might have these changes who do not have GSDM, but he suspicions that number is substantial. That means that while the SOD1 finding in Corgis and some GSDs is interesting in the GSDs, he should not focus all his attentions on SOD1. The other genomic changes he has seen in GSDM dogs may, in fact, explain GSDM better than SOD1. On the other hand, SOD1 might explain Corgis and separate the myelopathy seen in Corgis from GSDM patients, since it may explain why the disease in Corgis is not that same as in the GSD. So, like he use to say to the Corgi people, if you want to know about Corgis, you should study them. If you want to kn
by marjorie on 14 March 2009 - 16:03
If you want to know about GSDs, then you should study GSDs. It is possible that the Broad Institute and Dr C are both right and we merely need to continue to search for the final truth.
Dr C's goal in the next few months is to finish his investigations into the regions of the genome he has been tracking and to see if that profile can explain more fully which GSDs are really susceptible to GSDM based upon consideration of all of these factors. He does plan further clinical trials and remains hopeful that he will find better treatments for GSDM patients to mitigate this devastating disease. We are in a very vital time when a number of emerging technologies may help us in this struggle. While the current usefulness of adult stem cells is very limited, he is pursuing strategies to solve the technical problems in making adult stem cells viable. Coupled with gene therapy, this offers hope for a cure. It is his belief that the studies of the genetic changes in GSDM patients will be the key which will lead to this. Your support has been the reason we have made progress. It stimulated others to investigate DM and has helped to confirm our clinical impressions and validate our work. While there is still some controversy and lack of consensus, even this discussion will help progress in the end.
Dr C's goal in the next few months is to finish his investigations into the regions of the genome he has been tracking and to see if that profile can explain more fully which GSDs are really susceptible to GSDM based upon consideration of all of these factors. He does plan further clinical trials and remains hopeful that he will find better treatments for GSDM patients to mitigate this devastating disease. We are in a very vital time when a number of emerging technologies may help us in this struggle. While the current usefulness of adult stem cells is very limited, he is pursuing strategies to solve the technical problems in making adult stem cells viable. Coupled with gene therapy, this offers hope for a cure. It is his belief that the studies of the genetic changes in GSDM patients will be the key which will lead to this. Your support has been the reason we have made progress. It stimulated others to investigate DM and has helped to confirm our clinical impressions and validate our work. While there is still some controversy and lack of consensus, even this discussion will help progress in the end.
by marjorie on 14 March 2009 - 16:03
It is imperative for people to understand and educate themselves about GERMAN
SHEPHERD Degenerative Myelopathy. This is probably NOT the same disease as the
DM of the Corgi or Boxer. Test results yield entirely different results between
GSDS and other breeds. One cannot lump DM of several breeds together and declare
they are the same, when test results clearly show major differences!
Medications, herbs and supplements for GSDM (German Shepherd Dog Myelopathy) do
not necessarily work for other breeds.
In Dr Joan Coates DM study, there were only 4 German Shepherds spines used proven to have
DM, via necropsy . Dogs were taken into that research
study using only ONE of several different criteria for diagnosing DM, and the
CSF and Electromyogram were not a requirement used to be entered into the study.
Some of the dogs in
the research were taken into the study with an eyeball diagnosis, alone! This is
clearly stated in the paper they published. An electromyogram would have
distinguished between GSDM and other conditions, at least in the GSDS! While
this might not be the case, in relation to Corgis and Boxers, in the GSD, the
electromyogram is most certainly an important part of the diagnosis.
I personally feel the GSD breed is being left in the dust, while the AKCCHF
spends all its money on Corgi and Boxer DM. It makes me sad when I see GSD
people touting the work of a researcher whose specialty is not our breed. I am
not saying that these researchers are not capable or competent capable. However,
I do not feel they are qualified to research the specific disease of the DM of
the GSD, using the methods employed by them during this research study.! There
were over a hundred corgis admitted to the research study and only 4, as in
f-o-u-r GSDS spines, entered into the study, whose necropsies confirmed DM. IMHO, 4 GSDS that were confirmed
with DM through necropsy is not nearly enough to announce that the SOD1 change
is present in GSDS with DM. If Dr C had admitted dogs to a research study
without doing all the appropriate tests, he would have been hung out to dry! DR
Clemmons has not found a definitive link between a change in the SOD1 in
relation to GSDM, thus far, and certainly not all GSDS who have DM, diagnosed by
ALL the rule in tests, have had changes to the SOD1.
The Flash Test does not diagnose DM- it merely shows a genetic predisposition to
inherit. Not all dogs who are positive on the Flash test have DM, nor will all
dogs who have a positive Flash Test, develop DM. IMHO, the key to the DM mystery
will lie in the dark DNA. Being owned by a DM dog, at this time, and being the
Founder of the GSD DM Support Group, I do not feel comfortable with research on
GSDM being in the hands of Dr Coates. I am quite disappointed with the AKCCHF
handling of DM research, as it pertains to German Shepherds. :(
As far as DM being ALS, perhaps that is the case in Corgis and Boxers. However,
in GSDS, we cannot ignore the difference in test results!
SHEPHERD Degenerative Myelopathy. This is probably NOT the same disease as the
DM of the Corgi or Boxer. Test results yield entirely different results between
GSDS and other breeds. One cannot lump DM of several breeds together and declare
they are the same, when test results clearly show major differences!
Medications, herbs and supplements for GSDM (German Shepherd Dog Myelopathy) do
not necessarily work for other breeds.
In Dr Joan Coates DM study, there were only 4 German Shepherds spines used proven to have
DM, via necropsy . Dogs were taken into that research
study using only ONE of several different criteria for diagnosing DM, and the
CSF and Electromyogram were not a requirement used to be entered into the study.
Some of the dogs in
the research were taken into the study with an eyeball diagnosis, alone! This is
clearly stated in the paper they published. An electromyogram would have
distinguished between GSDM and other conditions, at least in the GSDS! While
this might not be the case, in relation to Corgis and Boxers, in the GSD, the
electromyogram is most certainly an important part of the diagnosis.
I personally feel the GSD breed is being left in the dust, while the AKCCHF
spends all its money on Corgi and Boxer DM. It makes me sad when I see GSD
people touting the work of a researcher whose specialty is not our breed. I am
not saying that these researchers are not capable or competent capable. However,
I do not feel they are qualified to research the specific disease of the DM of
the GSD, using the methods employed by them during this research study.! There
were over a hundred corgis admitted to the research study and only 4, as in
f-o-u-r GSDS spines, entered into the study, whose necropsies confirmed DM. IMHO, 4 GSDS that were confirmed
with DM through necropsy is not nearly enough to announce that the SOD1 change
is present in GSDS with DM. If Dr C had admitted dogs to a research study
without doing all the appropriate tests, he would have been hung out to dry! DR
Clemmons has not found a definitive link between a change in the SOD1 in
relation to GSDM, thus far, and certainly not all GSDS who have DM, diagnosed by
ALL the rule in tests, have had changes to the SOD1.
The Flash Test does not diagnose DM- it merely shows a genetic predisposition to
inherit. Not all dogs who are positive on the Flash test have DM, nor will all
dogs who have a positive Flash Test, develop DM. IMHO, the key to the DM mystery
will lie in the dark DNA. Being owned by a DM dog, at this time, and being the
Founder of the GSD DM Support Group, I do not feel comfortable with research on
GSDM being in the hands of Dr Coates. I am quite disappointed with the AKCCHF
handling of DM research, as it pertains to German Shepherds. :(
As far as DM being ALS, perhaps that is the case in Corgis and Boxers. However,
in GSDS, we cannot ignore the difference in test results!
by marjorie on 14 March 2009 - 16:03
In typical ALS, the motor unit disease is detected by EMG long before the rest
of the signs are seen. In Juvenile ALS, the motor cortex is greatly atrophied as
visible on the MRI. We see neither of these in GSDM. There is no protein
elevation, no oligoclonal IgG bands, and no increased IgG in CSF of ALS
patients.
To simplify- lay person's explanation:
DM Corgis, Boxers: Autoimmune disease not proven, but no motor unit disease
proven either
DM GSD: Autoimmune disease
DM Corgis, Boxers: Protein is normal in the AO CSF
DM GSD: Protein is normal in the AO CSF but Protein is elevated in the Lumbar
CSF
DM Corgis, Boxers: Oligoclonal bands of IgG have not been examined
DM GSDS: Oligoclonal bands of IgG are common (as in MS)
DM Corgis, Boxers: affects cell bodies of neurons
DM GSDS: Does not affect cell bodies of neurons
DM Corgis. Boxers: muscle spams
DM GSDS: no muscle spasms
DM Corgis, Boxers: EMG changes
DM GSDS: EMG is normal
of the signs are seen. In Juvenile ALS, the motor cortex is greatly atrophied as
visible on the MRI. We see neither of these in GSDM. There is no protein
elevation, no oligoclonal IgG bands, and no increased IgG in CSF of ALS
patients.
To simplify- lay person's explanation:
DM Corgis, Boxers: Autoimmune disease not proven, but no motor unit disease
proven either
DM GSD: Autoimmune disease
DM Corgis, Boxers: Protein is normal in the AO CSF
DM GSD: Protein is normal in the AO CSF but Protein is elevated in the Lumbar
CSF
DM Corgis, Boxers: Oligoclonal bands of IgG have not been examined
DM GSDS: Oligoclonal bands of IgG are common (as in MS)
DM Corgis, Boxers: affects cell bodies of neurons
DM GSDS: Does not affect cell bodies of neurons
DM Corgis. Boxers: muscle spams
DM GSDS: no muscle spasms
DM Corgis, Boxers: EMG changes
DM GSDS: EMG is normal
by marjorie on 14 March 2009 - 16:03
ALS is associated with early EMG changes, loss of neuronal cell bodies either in
the spinal cord or the central nervous system. ALS is not associated with an
increase in CSF protein nor changes in CSF IgG levels or nature. ALS does not
present with sensory changes (such as conscious proprioceptive dysfunction
[scuffing toes or standing on the top of the foot] or unconscious proprioceptive
dysfunction [picking the leg up too high like goose stepping]). DM does not have
EMG changes. Motor neurons in the spinal cord and brain are not affected. There
are changes associated with altered immunity including elevations of
circulatingimmune-complexes and elevations of inflammatory mediators in the CSF.
CSF protein is elevated in the lumbar CSF and this is due to the production of
inflammatory mediators into the CNS. There are elevated IgG and oligoclonal
bands of IgG in CSF. DM is associated with sensory changes and these are the
earliest neurologic signs that are seen. All of these changes and the pathology
of the disease are consistent with the human disease PPMS. They are not
consistent with ALS. . DM is more likely to be PPMS and the gene change in the
SOD1 region merely the trigger for why the immune system attacks the dog's own
nervous system. More work needs to be performed, not just in the GSD breed but
in other breeds who get DM, as well.
DR Clemmons was the true pioneer who FIRST discovered the DM markers, with no
help from the AKC-CHF!!! The DM Flash test is still an option for receiving a
CHIC certification, from the OFA. Others have merely followed in his
footsteps,and some have ADMITTEDLY taken his work from his website, and run with
it. By ADMITTEDLY, I do mean in front of MANY people, on a conference call (and
I quote "Well, his work was on his website- any researcher would have taken it
and run with it!").! @@ I do not believe in rewarding researchers who take others work
from their websites, with grants, nor do I feel that it is ethical, IMHO, to have a director of the AKCCHF sit on a committee that awards grants to someone working under them. IMHO, that is just not acceptable- this director should have recused themself from the committee that votes on grants, once someone who works under them applied for a grant ! Sheesh! (If they were a public wall street company, the SEC would have been all over them like flies on you know what!)
It greatly saddened me to have been privy to an exchange involving Dr Coates and
the owner of a GSD DM dog. The person asked Dr Coates about the diet, exercise,
supplements and medication program, and the program was dismissed by Dr Coates.
I have had 2 DM dogs, one of which is presently still with me, stabilized on Dr
C's program for 3 years, now, and the one I lost to DM, that had extra time and
quality of life because of it. As a person who has witnessed, first hand, the
benefits of the program, 2 out of 2 times, I cannot understand why it is
summarily dismissed, especially when a GSD owner has inquired about it. No, it
is not a cure- there is no cure for DM, but it certainly can help to slow the
progression of the disease in many cases. 100% of the cases- of course not- in
medicine, there is no such thing as a perfect record!
the spinal cord or the central nervous system. ALS is not associated with an
increase in CSF protein nor changes in CSF IgG levels or nature. ALS does not
present with sensory changes (such as conscious proprioceptive dysfunction
[scuffing toes or standing on the top of the foot] or unconscious proprioceptive
dysfunction [picking the leg up too high like goose stepping]). DM does not have
EMG changes. Motor neurons in the spinal cord and brain are not affected. There
are changes associated with altered immunity including elevations of
circulatingimmune-complexes and elevations of inflammatory mediators in the CSF.
CSF protein is elevated in the lumbar CSF and this is due to the production of
inflammatory mediators into the CNS. There are elevated IgG and oligoclonal
bands of IgG in CSF. DM is associated with sensory changes and these are the
earliest neurologic signs that are seen. All of these changes and the pathology
of the disease are consistent with the human disease PPMS. They are not
consistent with ALS. . DM is more likely to be PPMS and the gene change in the
SOD1 region merely the trigger for why the immune system attacks the dog's own
nervous system. More work needs to be performed, not just in the GSD breed but
in other breeds who get DM, as well.
DR Clemmons was the true pioneer who FIRST discovered the DM markers, with no
help from the AKC-CHF!!! The DM Flash test is still an option for receiving a
CHIC certification, from the OFA. Others have merely followed in his
footsteps,and some have ADMITTEDLY taken his work from his website, and run with
it. By ADMITTEDLY, I do mean in front of MANY people, on a conference call (and
I quote "Well, his work was on his website- any researcher would have taken it
and run with it!").! @@ I do not believe in rewarding researchers who take others work
from their websites, with grants, nor do I feel that it is ethical, IMHO, to have a director of the AKCCHF sit on a committee that awards grants to someone working under them. IMHO, that is just not acceptable- this director should have recused themself from the committee that votes on grants, once someone who works under them applied for a grant ! Sheesh! (If they were a public wall street company, the SEC would have been all over them like flies on you know what!)
It greatly saddened me to have been privy to an exchange involving Dr Coates and
the owner of a GSD DM dog. The person asked Dr Coates about the diet, exercise,
supplements and medication program, and the program was dismissed by Dr Coates.
I have had 2 DM dogs, one of which is presently still with me, stabilized on Dr
C's program for 3 years, now, and the one I lost to DM, that had extra time and
quality of life because of it. As a person who has witnessed, first hand, the
benefits of the program, 2 out of 2 times, I cannot understand why it is
summarily dismissed, especially when a GSD owner has inquired about it. No, it
is not a cure- there is no cure for DM, but it certainly can help to slow the
progression of the disease in many cases. 100% of the cases- of course not- in
medicine, there is no such thing as a perfect record!
by marjorie on 14 March 2009 - 16:03
I was not born a Dr Clemmons supporter- I get nothing from promoting his DM
work- I am just a witness to the benefits, and feel sorry for those who are told
his program is not worth trying, and are even actively discouraged to at least
give it a try! If it helps even ONE DM dog, IMHO, that is worth a try. A DM dogs
life should not be written off or dismissed. They have every right to receive
any/all care as other ill dogs do, which may possibly benefit them. Their life
is no less valuable, because there is no cure.
work- I am just a witness to the benefits, and feel sorry for those who are told
his program is not worth trying, and are even actively discouraged to at least
give it a try! If it helps even ONE DM dog, IMHO, that is worth a try. A DM dogs
life should not be written off or dismissed. They have every right to receive
any/all care as other ill dogs do, which may possibly benefit them. Their life
is no less valuable, because there is no cure.
by marjorie on 14 March 2009 - 16:03
it would behoove the owners of GSDM dogs to understand that Corgi
DM is not the same DM as the DM of the GSD, and take that into consideration, in
any advice they receive from an online DM group, discussing and dispensing DM advice.
As the owner of a DM dog and a GERMAN SHEPHERD DM DOG, I am thoroughly disgusted by the actions of the AKCCHF, and the blind eye they turn to looking at test results showing that the DM of the GSD is NOT the same DM of Corgis and Boxers. I cannot understand why GSD owners have allowed this to happen..... Is it because if one does not have a DM dog, one does not care? One day, and I hope and pray NOT, you may find yourselves on the DM path I am traveling on, and sadly, have traveled before. My guess is that if you walk a mile in my shoes, you will undertand exactly how I feel.
The DM Flash test is still on the OFA site, under German Shepherd Chic progams, as an optional test for Chic certification. Why are GSD owners submitting tests to researchers who are studying Corgis and Boxers, and not German Shepherds? This is just mind boggling to me. I would think GSD owners would support GSD research! I just dont get it....Do people really want ot be left with only corgi and boxer DM research? Do you think that will help you when your GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG gets DM???????? ::::hugh sigh::::::::: Is this the classic case of you can bring the horse to the well, but you cant make it drink????
Am I frustrated?You bet I am... PLEAS PLEASE PLEASE, people- EDUCATE yourselves about DM! Visit my website and LEARN- read! Focus on OUR BREED and make things happen for OUR breed! As the owner of a second DM dog, I am not too proud to beg :(
Marjorie
Executive Director: New Beginnings Shepherd Rescue
www.newbeginningsrescue.com 501 C3 pending
http://www.gsdbbr.org --> The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry (including frozen/chilled semen database)
Please utilize this Health Registry to ensure a healthy future for our breed!
Be PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group
DM is not the same DM as the DM of the GSD, and take that into consideration, in
any advice they receive from an online DM group, discussing and dispensing DM advice.
As the owner of a DM dog and a GERMAN SHEPHERD DM DOG, I am thoroughly disgusted by the actions of the AKCCHF, and the blind eye they turn to looking at test results showing that the DM of the GSD is NOT the same DM of Corgis and Boxers. I cannot understand why GSD owners have allowed this to happen..... Is it because if one does not have a DM dog, one does not care? One day, and I hope and pray NOT, you may find yourselves on the DM path I am traveling on, and sadly, have traveled before. My guess is that if you walk a mile in my shoes, you will undertand exactly how I feel.
The DM Flash test is still on the OFA site, under German Shepherd Chic progams, as an optional test for Chic certification. Why are GSD owners submitting tests to researchers who are studying Corgis and Boxers, and not German Shepherds? This is just mind boggling to me. I would think GSD owners would support GSD research! I just dont get it....Do people really want ot be left with only corgi and boxer DM research? Do you think that will help you when your GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG gets DM???????? ::::hugh sigh::::::::: Is this the classic case of you can bring the horse to the well, but you cant make it drink????
Am I frustrated?You bet I am... PLEAS PLEASE PLEASE, people- EDUCATE yourselves about DM! Visit my website and LEARN- read! Focus on OUR BREED and make things happen for OUR breed! As the owner of a second DM dog, I am not too proud to beg :(
Marjorie
Executive Director: New Beginnings Shepherd Rescue
www.newbeginningsrescue.com 501 C3 pending
http://www.gsdbbr.org --> The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry (including frozen/chilled semen database)
Please utilize this Health Registry to ensure a healthy future for our breed!
Be PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group
by AnjaBlue on 14 March 2009 - 17:03
Thank you so much for posting this Marjorie - this is the sort of information I'd like to see on the PDB more often. I have never had to deal with DM but that doesn't mean I will never have to. I appreciate your input.....
by marjorie on 14 March 2009 - 18:03
Thank you for taking the time to READ it! i think if people had a better idea of the wool that is being pulled over people's eyes by the AKCCHF, in rrelation to GSDM, they would be more apt to join together to make sure our breed isnt ignored. They can only do that if we allow them to ignore us! Singly, they can ignore, but together, they cannot- we would be a force to be reckoned with.
If anyone is mad as hell and they dont want to take it anymore, please let me know. as you can all see, from what I have posted, we are dealing with 2 entirely different diseases in discussing GSDM abd the DM of Corgis and Boxers. :(
Marjorie
Executive Director: New Beginnings Shepherd Rescue
www.newbeginningsrescue.com 501 C3 pending
www.gsdbbr.org
--> The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry (including frozen/chilled semen database)
Please utilize this Health Registry to ensure a healthy future for our breed!
Be PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group
If anyone is mad as hell and they dont want to take it anymore, please let me know. as you can all see, from what I have posted, we are dealing with 2 entirely different diseases in discussing GSDM abd the DM of Corgis and Boxers. :(
Marjorie
Executive Director: New Beginnings Shepherd Rescue
www.newbeginningsrescue.com 501 C3 pending
www.gsdbbr.org
--> The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry (including frozen/chilled semen database)
Please utilize this Health Registry to ensure a healthy future for our breed!
Be PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group
by hodie on 14 March 2009 - 18:03
What this all means is that NO research has been conclusive to date as to a genetic marker and the pushing of a genetic test that has been done to date has been unwarranted. Going off half-cocked helps no dog. Making assumptions based on lack of clinical and pathological and genetic evidence makes no sense and indeed, compromises the chance that we might ever find a real cause and method to intervene and treat and prevent such a disease.
Further, one cannot make sound judgments about dogs and dog genetics from some database created by a layperson that has a few entries and many of which are subject to scrutiny and dismissal. This is not how good science works.
When people promote their own agenda without sound science, it does the entire research subject, in this case, GSDs, a disservice. The fact that the test is not going to be done anymore says a lot.
The world of genetic research is very competitive whether it be in human genetics or animals. To suppose that all researchers will conduct their research and share findings, collaborate, or even perform the work in a similar manner is ludicrous. In the end, it takes millions of dollars and years of effort to answer some of the questions about to be answered. For example, there are tests available now, soon to be commercialized, that will help humans and animals immensely. But in most cases, it took years and years of work to find the responsible genetic problem.
Reading the scientific literature and studies is the best way to stay on top of these issues. Most people are not interested to do so and/or don't have the background to begin to understand it. So for those people, they have to wait until health issues are dealt with in a definitive manner
Further, one cannot make sound judgments about dogs and dog genetics from some database created by a layperson that has a few entries and many of which are subject to scrutiny and dismissal. This is not how good science works.
When people promote their own agenda without sound science, it does the entire research subject, in this case, GSDs, a disservice. The fact that the test is not going to be done anymore says a lot.
The world of genetic research is very competitive whether it be in human genetics or animals. To suppose that all researchers will conduct their research and share findings, collaborate, or even perform the work in a similar manner is ludicrous. In the end, it takes millions of dollars and years of effort to answer some of the questions about to be answered. For example, there are tests available now, soon to be commercialized, that will help humans and animals immensely. But in most cases, it took years and years of work to find the responsible genetic problem.
Reading the scientific literature and studies is the best way to stay on top of these issues. Most people are not interested to do so and/or don't have the background to begin to understand it. So for those people, they have to wait until health issues are dealt with in a definitive manner
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top