To Split or not to Split? - Page 1

To Split or not to Split?

 By Sue Belfield – Kassieger GSD
read the full article – click below
http://www.videxgsd.com/to_split_or_not_to_split.htm

THERE IS ALSO A DOWNLOAD & PRINT FACILITY

The same thing is happening here in the US where a good German dog cannot compete against an American dog in the AKC ring. It really IS a different breed in type and temperament...

Perhaps rather than making the types split, UK and the US should institute the same requirements for breeding that Germany does - minimum hip/elbow screenings, a breed survey and a title. That would certainly separate a lot of wheat from the chaff.

Apologies if I am going over a lot that has already been said and this is just my own opinions and views – so feel free to pick at it and correct me please – thanks.   SEPARATION OF THE 2 STYLES OF GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG/ALASATIAN IT IS THE ONLY FUTURE FOR OUR WONDERFUL BREED (3 POSTS)   As I have not been a frequent visitor to the Database over the last 2 years for reasons that will remain my own business, and have just come back to reading some of the posts, I found 2 posts that were of the most interest to me as an KC Affix Holder/Small Kennel & Breeder. I would like to put forward a few points and opinions of my own.   Having read many of the posts on this issue I find that many of us wish for the same thing – CHANGE FOR THE GOOD OF THE BREED – but like Mo, David, Paul and Bill etc etc, it needs to be done in a competent, good mannered and sensible way – there is no point trying to bully or push people into something they don’t want. I can associate with David sometimes, he is passionate about his dogs, as we at home have heated arguments about what should and should not happen in the Breed, and sometimes things boil over, but this is where it has to stop.   I would like to make one point before I get too involved – THE GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG, whether it be Germanic or Alsatian (to include working and pet) is GENETICALLY THE SAME BREED OF DOG – if you take DNA samples today from a Germanic Dog and an Alsatian (UK) dog it will surely come back as the ONE BREED. However, why can it not be SEPARATED into 2 sections similar to the Belgian Shepherd (they have 4 sections or types, but they are still Belgian Shepherds). Therefore, genetically our GSDs are NOT 2 BREEDS      - but have evolved or been genetically engineered (the choice is yours) to become what they are today – human interference has a lot to answer for does it not?   There are many great ideas on this post and like Mo said it is getting these ideas co-ordinated together to approach the KC with an INITIAL PROPOSAL. That being said the final decision of having a SEPARATION of the 2 styles/types of GSD/Alastian would have to be made by ALL THE AFFIX HOLDERS/OTHERS who feel they want to add their support, many of whom have dogs registered within the KC system and who have valid points to make.   The only way to finalise these proposals is by DEMOCRATIC VOTE and/or by firstly a QUESTIONNAIRE then a VOTE – from there the answers have to be correlated into some kind of sensible Final Agreement between both factions and the KC.    Before I go any further can I say I am glad to see David Payne agreeing that a TOTAL SPLIT at this time would be a disaster – would it not be wise/sensible to use the resources we have in place at the moment to make a start on the process of a separation. The KC has a great many resources, modern technology and money – WHY NOT USE THIS to aid the end aim of separating The German Shepherd Dog into 2 sections – it has been agreed THAT THEY WILL NEVER COMBINE AGAIN, therefore no matter how much pressure you put on either section it will never work because it has been this way far too long. The KC also has to evolve and by gentle persuasive pressure will do so, lets do it the slow and sure way and use their resources to make the change happen.   We are aware there will many hurdles to cross if the separation goes ahead in the future. Firstly, the fear of a lot of GSD Breeders is that if there was a TOTAL SPLIT and depending on who was to run the show, this “SPLIT” would become a DICTATORSHIP with the e

elimination of a lot of smaller kennels and breeders, who for innumerate reasons cannot keep up with the rest in training their dogs to be multi-purpose animals – reasons being as has been said many times – age, health, finances, access to training facilities for both show and working, and location in the UK etc – we all know the position of a great number of breeders in the game – they should not be penalized for being small, as some of them are very  productive kennels who adhere to the health/welfare issues of the breed, albeit in a small way and along the way have made massive contributions to the improvement of the Breed. For example the folks who worked hard to bring in and implement the Hip Scoring Scheme and the Haemophilia Scheme run and recorded for many years by a dedicated John Allinson who gave his all for no return. Many of these people have a valid interest and much experience to give to the breed and these values should not be lost because they are unable to produce puppies, work their dogs or show any more – their experience is the backbone of our breed. Opinions and suggestions in all  forms are important to this change.   I agree totally with Mo Lakin when she says – form some kind of Working Party to go to the KC with an initial plan of a few/small list of proposals FROM BOTH SIDES using a well respected person/persons from each side of the fence. If we can get the KC to agree to these initial proposals we can progress from there. This progression has to be done by individual contact with AFFIX HOLDERS asking what they want – this is the only way to show if a SEPARATION is feasible – I am pretty sure it will come out that way. The GSD Partnership is a great thing, but in its present form does not cover all the bases – it is too one sided – needs more input from all aspects of the breed to assure ALL that it is being fair and unbiased in its approach to the KC.    The KC, by working with both sides, will then realise that to work out a solution this way means they do not lose out in the “money stakes”, which seems to be the be all and end all to some of them, there is no getting away with the fact that if the Germanic side splits away they will lose many thousands of pounds of revenue – surely they are not that blind.    The solution is, the way I see it (albeit I am only a small cog in a very large wheel and may be on the wrong track here) is as follows:-  

1. A WORKING PARTY IS FORMED with representatives from both sides (as suggested by many on this post) and should include reps from the Working Side of the breed as well – as it is a know fact that both sides can work and show their dogs – this WP to draw up initially a small list of formal proposals to begin the separation of the BREED into 2 SECTIONS – namely THE GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG and ALSATIAN DOG. Every group has moderate people who can sit down and put the proposals forward without confrontation and these are the people we need to do the job.

 
The initial proposals MUST CONTAIN THE HEALTH ISSUES FOR BOTH SIDES – namely HIPS SCORING AND ELBOW SCORING as well as Haemophilia Testing for males. This can work as the systems are already in place, because if all the rules apply equally to both sections then there is no favouritism with either side – this would sort the wheat from the chaff. THERE MUST BE PUBLIC AWARENESS OF WHAT IS HAPPENING AND WHEN IT WILL HAPPEN – this can be done with advertising on a large scale – via Veterinary Practices (BVA have access t

This is where a 2 Tier System can be implemented (as suggested by DP previously) and a time given for change to the new system. ALL PUPPIES registered after a given date, whether they be from SECTION ONE or SECTION 2 will only be registered as TIER 2 until such time as they themselves are health tested at the appropriate age. 
ALL ADULTS can be tiered appropriately – whether they be a transfer of an adult dog to new owner or an Import brought in to the country. This is the stage where the KC would have to accept the SV System of Hips/Elbows and DNA into their own system regarding adult dogs. Plus any dogs brought into the UK from any Country that are under 1 year old and not eligible for health tests are clearly TIER 2 until they are health tested. No one from any of the Sections can have their dog upgraded to Tier 1 until they follow all schemes available.
 

2. From this initial position the proposals are then taken forward to the Affix Holders/Interested Appropriate Parties asking them to make their choice. A very large % of each Section will have a clear cut choice and will make it without hesitation. There will however always be the middle of the road, sit on the fence people, who never decide on anything – if they are not prepared to make that choice then so be it – they will be left behind and will find it difficult to continue onwards if they don’t, these are the ones that prevent progression anyway so are we really worried about them. There is no middle road anymore, decide one way or the other and stick to it.

 

3. Once the information is in and collated then the Working Party and the KC can make the final decision to SEPARATE the Breed into 2 Sections – hence the ideal position would be –

 
(a)    ONE BREED – DIVIDED INTO 2 SECTIONS – GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG and
      ALSATIAN DOG.
 
(b)   ONE SET OF HEALTH SYSTEMS APPLY TO BOTH SECTIONS – NO   DEVIATION FROM THIS IS ANY WAY WHATSOEVER FOR ANY REASON.
 
(c)    A 2 TIER REGISTRATION SYSTEM FOR BOTH SECTIONS AS ABOVE.  
(d)   ON THE JUDGING SIDE OF THINGS – BREED JUDGES MUST STATE WHETHER THEY ARE PREPARED TO JUDGE ONE SECTION OR THE OTHER – OR BOTH – THIS IS WHERE THE LARGE CANINE SOCIETIES WILL HAVE TO MAKE THEIR DECISION TO CHOOSE THE JUDGE THAT SUITS THEIR CLUBS. THIS SITUATION WILL EVOLVE WITH THE NEW SYSTEM IN PLACE AND SOME LARGE CANINE SOCIETIES WILL FIND WHICH IS BEST FOR THEM WHEN THEIR ENTRIES DROP EITHER WAY – AS ONE HAS DONE ALREADY IN SCOTLAND.   OTHER ISSUES TO CONSIDER  

1. A SET BREEDING AGE FOR A GSD BITCH – the 3 season issue should be removed completely and replaced with a suitable age (not the KC’s rubbish of accept litters from young GSD bitches just over one year old – this is too young in our Bre

hi bill the part i fail to grasp in your last post is     Reading you're article has made me think seriously, to change my vote to NO. Bill Owen.    Why would reading an article make you want to change your vote you either want to split the gsd/alsatian or you dont we all have an opinion on this and yours was to split so how can an article change your mind  you would have voted with a consience the same as the rest of us knowing that your vote was an honest opinion that you have made.
jim h

Bill I am starting to think your passion in life is to pick fault with anything I do or say - cant you just take the long shower first and be done with it.?  lol
 
As for the photo of the Alsatian used I have absolutely no idea who it is or when it was taken but then I am not the one you need to ask , for this information please consult your friend David Payne as I did when I asked him if he could supply me with a photo of an Alsatian that would not cause him to have a copywrite issue when placing it on his website.

As for my article changing your mind I am with Jim H on that one as I cannot possibly imagine what your initial reasons were for voting Yes if my article has changed you mind.

Meanwhile, My sincere thanks to everyone who has emailed and/or phoned with your support for my article, your response really has been overwhelming and very humbling, Thank you.
 
Regards
Sue B

Aileen wrote:

"There will however always be the middle of the road, sit on the fence people, who never decide on anything – if they are not prepared to make that choice then so be it – they will be left behind and will find it difficult to continue onwards if they don’t, these are the ones that prevent progression anyway so are we really worried about them. There is no middle road anymore, decide one way or the other and stick to it."

I was with you all the way till this paragraph.   I do not consider people who favour the 'middle of the road' types to be 'sit on the fence' people who never decide on anything - on the contrary I for one know exactly what I want when I breed/judge/show and that is an unexaggerated dog that fits my interpretation of the breed standard.  As I said before although I have voted YES to the split (which I feel is inevitable) I fear that both sides will be in danger of taking their 'types' to the extremes, and in the case of the 'germanic' side their shows and the handling too.