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by raymond on 04 February 2009 - 17:02
My dog sits, platz and currently training foose what steps to take to teach the stay and long down ? Focus is good and ball drive amazing. Outs very well and basic obedience is good. Are there ABC'sof progression ? Thanks
by Baldursmom on 04 February 2009 - 17:02
Yes, start with the platz, and the ball, tell her stay or blieb, make her wait for the ball, a few seconds. Increase to minutes, start walking away, correct (put her back in the platz EXACTLY where she was) and do not reward when she moves. Gradually build up to the 20 minutes. Takes a lot of time and effort. We are asking the dog to do nothing, its hard for her to understand that concept. The ball may be too much for her, brings her up to much, if you ahve trouble, try a food reward instead.
Yank and crankers have a pinch collar on the dog and a second handler to correct the problem. I have even heard of others trying the dog to the ground so they cannot move to teach this. This is not a great way to train this.
Yank and crankers have a pinch collar on the dog and a second handler to correct the problem. I have even heard of others trying the dog to the ground so they cannot move to teach this. This is not a great way to train this.
by yellowrose of Texas on 04 February 2009 - 17:02
It is an every day progression of standing in front of pup,,,in platz...back yourself backwards a few steps at a time..hold treat in front of your face, making pup watch the treat and your hand...reinforce stay with the right hand out toward pup..." Stay "is said over and over..
The minute you see pup about to break the platz,,,command "come" or "hier". put dog back in same place and platz and stay command ...walk or step away from dog and go to front facing dog..slowly saying " stay" command very firmly...very firmly,
reward for the come....just keep doing the same "platz ", "stay " and reinforce stay....back up a litte each day...till you are far away ,,,remember to command " hier"
or come to you....and reward...do not give a reward if not done.... decide which word to use " blibe "or "stay."..use same word all the time and reward as "good hier " "good blibe" or "good stay."..
if pup breaks the platz, grab collar and return the dog to the spot....put in platz......step in front , face dog and begin the stay or "blibe."........using the right hand to show stay.......achieve the short distance first before you back up too far at one time...
It is a over and over and over thing...then one day step aside and walk away ,,,giveing a firm " Stay" or" Blibe". use a very firm voice on the "stay" or" blibe." wait short period and call...practice this every day until you are across the whole front yard and can hide behind a tree and she stays.. Reinforce stay as many times as need until she learns....
YR
The minute you see pup about to break the platz,,,command "come" or "hier". put dog back in same place and platz and stay command ...walk or step away from dog and go to front facing dog..slowly saying " stay" command very firmly...very firmly,
reward for the come....just keep doing the same "platz ", "stay " and reinforce stay....back up a litte each day...till you are far away ,,,remember to command " hier"
or come to you....and reward...do not give a reward if not done.... decide which word to use " blibe "or "stay."..use same word all the time and reward as "good hier " "good blibe" or "good stay."..
if pup breaks the platz, grab collar and return the dog to the spot....put in platz......step in front , face dog and begin the stay or "blibe."........using the right hand to show stay.......achieve the short distance first before you back up too far at one time...
It is a over and over and over thing...then one day step aside and walk away ,,,giveing a firm " Stay" or" Blibe". use a very firm voice on the "stay" or" blibe." wait short period and call...practice this every day until you are across the whole front yard and can hide behind a tree and she stays.. Reinforce stay as many times as need until she learns....
YR
by Peter Oja on 04 February 2009 - 21:02
The reward for the behavior must be immediate, “down” or “Platz” reward, next you must reward the dog for continuing. Next release the dog form the position, “break” or “ Free” then reward.
The dog must learn that “down” is down and wait for you to give the next command. If you mix in stay,blibe or other obedience command that does not have anything to do with the training you are not providing clear signals to the dog and your training will suffer.
by Mindhunt on 04 February 2009 - 23:02
All very good suggestions. What I did and believe me, it will take patience and time!!!! Started her on a platz with food in my hand palm down (fist) until she downed, then when she was down, I gave her treat, palm up so she didn't move. Released her and did it again, over and over (over the course of time) until she had platz concept solid. Then I lengthened time with food given, same way palm down then turn palm up with food in palm with verbal encouragement. Eventually I lenghtened the time between treats and used verbal encouragement without food every single time (sometimes verbal and food, sometimes just verbal). This went on for a while lengthening time between treats until I got to the point of a 30 minute down (yes me standing next to her and sneeking a foot onto her leash so she would self correct if she tried to get up but foot-on-leash only after platz and release concept where solid). A firm "no" if she tried to get up (leash would correct her). Eventually I increased the time away from her (her on a long line) and also did away with food except for occasional reward when I went back to her (always with food in hand palm down so she would not get up at my approach). Also worked on eye contact all the time with food or toy as reward in the home, during training, any time I got a chance so all I had to do is say "look" or her name. She now can down with squirrels running by, dogs, kids calling her and even enticement with food by one of the firefighters my hubby works with (me in the next room and no, I didn't know about this until I got back to her shaking and whining but still in the down, I was in the next room only a few seconds to get a bucket). Needless to say, I released her and giggled as she flew into his lap to get her food treat from him (yes I know it was evil, but he deserved it, and she is a good girl who knows her limits, but this was a special occasion, taught him to tease her again, LOL). It will take time and there are occasional set backs. Work with a good trainer and they can catch oopses before you and your dog make them a problem to overcome. Have fun
by yellowrose of Texas on 05 February 2009 - 00:02
Peter Oja: His dog already knows Sitz and Platz according to his post...So his adding Blibe or stay is next and he can use both of them you cant platz without saying platz...Halo already knows Platz.
YR
YR
by Mindhunt on 05 February 2009 - 01:02
True YR, I forgot to add that my K9s know Blieb but my Schutzhund trainer just wanted to combine the blieb and platz to platz, my first Schutzhund dog so I did what he said. I do like to use blieb with sit or stand as well and did it the same way, with time, patience, and treats gradually getting away from treats though I still occassionally use them even with my 8 yr old just to keep him guessing (Psycho Einstein is his nickname if that gives you any idea, way too smart for his own good and keeps me on my toes as well 
) Sorry, I think I might have highjacked this thread a little to brag. My bad....
) Sorry, I think I might have highjacked this thread a little to brag. My bad....by Baldursmom on 05 February 2009 - 02:02
He is trianing for BH, can't remember, after the 20 min down, does the dog recall or does the owner return to the dog? She should learn both. Peter also has a piont here, platz means platz, sitz means sitz, don't move till I tell you can. Can the stay comand be used in the competition?
by dAWgESOME on 05 February 2009 - 02:02
Handler goes to the dog for the BH- I'm 99.9% sure you can not say "stay/blibe/wait. I think that would be considered a 2nd command.
by sueincc on 05 February 2009 - 02:02
Platz means platz, no additional command. When I say "platz" my dog knows he MUST "platz" until I say otherwise.
End of exercise: Handler returns to the right side of dog, wait 3 seconds, command "sitz" attach leash, "fuss" to the judge.
Oh and yeah, I train this and just about all other exercizes with a pinch, mr. edison, sometimes have a 2nd person on a long line hidden in a blind, and other things, (depending on the dog). These are EXCELLENT methods, but you do need an experienced person with you to guide you and help you, not something to teach over the net.
End of exercise: Handler returns to the right side of dog, wait 3 seconds, command "sitz" attach leash, "fuss" to the judge.
Oh and yeah, I train this and just about all other exercizes with a pinch, mr. edison, sometimes have a 2nd person on a long line hidden in a blind, and other things, (depending on the dog). These are EXCELLENT methods, but you do need an experienced person with you to guide you and help you, not something to teach over the net.
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