Tests for Breeding potential dogs - Page 1

Hi , I posted this as a response, but I want more input so I'm posting a question now.  Looking for more input please.

I wonder if any one can tell me what tests are out there to do on our dogs if we are thinking of breeding?  I have been told by my vet that it takes 2 recessives to create an EPI dog.  But she also says you can't test the adults with certainty.  I have a very healthy female with fine general blood tests, yet she produced a pup who did become an EPI dog.  She also had owners who fed her crap food, and neglected her, and I eventually rescued the poor dog and placed her in a wonderful home, where she now gets enzymes and lots of love.   My question is that a TLI test did not show a low level of enzyme in my female, so is there another way to test adults?

I know about Thyroid testing.  Hips and Elbows, of course.

What else can I test my adults for, and ask Stud owners if they have tested??

thank you, Sharon

Just like any recessives, it takes 2 to get the manifestation. Just like a blue GSD, both parents must carry the blue recessive, and therefore, some pups will be blue, some will not, but ALL will be carriers. If there is no way to test as yet, perhaps you should assume that one of the pups chose both recessives, and now manifests the illness. Genetics is complicated stuff. It's hard not to say not to breed her again, maybe use another stud? You may eliminate alot of potential breeding dogs this way, but, there are not many options if you want to stay COMPLETELY away from problems. Sometimes, you just can't win. There is no perfect dog, but we try really hard to produce extreme health. Take care, VS GSD's

Thanks Pam, I appreciate all I can learn about breeding for a more sound, healthy animal.   I am crossing my fingers and have bred my female with a different stud, who is the picture of health, on his way to his Sch3, nice sound mind......

Do you know what the test is for hemophilia?  I didn't know it was an issue for our breed.

Sharon

There are some dm tests being offered now to test for carriers, one through the ofa.

Actually if she produced a dog with EPI then she will pass on the gene for EPI to about half of all her litters... you just happened to be unfortunate (or fortunate in some viewpoints to have caught it so early) that the male also carried the gene producing a litter of approximately 25% affected, 50% carrriers and 25% clear dogs that do not carry the gene.  I think anyone with a dog with severe EPI would strongly discourage you from ever breeding your girl again because you know you are producing carriers and possibly entering them into the genepool just to present itself again.  IF we had a genetic test for EPI as we now do for DM then there would be a less risky way of going about breeding her and her carrier offspring as you would screen and make sure you matched them with a dog that's genetically clear... and maybe even DNA test all the pups and make sure all carriers are sold under a spay/neuter contract.  Unfortunately we still do not have a DNA test for it so the best advice I can give is not to breed her. 

As for the hemophilia test, you can get a hemo. panal drawn at your vets and sent away.  Make sure they do it right as if not done correctly you will have wasted a lot of money and get invalid results.  This panal will also check for vWD..  The problem is that this panal will not necessarily tell you if your female carries hemophilia... only if she has it... she would have to have it on both Xs to show it and that's not likely.  The best way to insure she does not carry hemo. is to have all of her male offspring hemo. tested as they only need it on their one X to show it... but you may have to do this for a few litters until you feel safe that you should have found a carrier if she had it (say about 10 male offspring to be pretty sure she doesn't).  I kind of doubt there's anyone that does this though (note: if you do, you are awesome).  If science has the backing of the GSD world, I imagine a DNA test for EPI, vWD and hemo. aren't far off... but they will need to know there's a market for it... which is why I strongly encourage the interest in DM testing (even if it's in it's baby stages).  Good luck with your girl.

Thank you amysue.....I did breed my girl again to a different stud; so I can't not breed her at this point.  I am worried about passing on this awful gene.  Yet, I still am not sure from what I read that she is a carrier.  Some articles I've read say that a dog can have a lower level of enzyme output, yet not be EPI, but if in a stressed environment (which this young girl did have unfortunately) the body can drop in enzyme production and pancreas will crash and EPI becomes the dogs life sentence.  I have also read that some dogs can recover from this if caught in time.....IF it was environmental.   So I watched this young female, after I took her back and started her immediately on pancreatic enzyme and proper diet, blossom and she has continued to do so with her new owner.  I am waiting for her to do a TLI on the dog and actually see if her pancreas has started to work again.   I guess it is just too risky.  My girl has had a total of 13 puppies in her 2 litters (same stud for those) and the one puppy is our EPI dog.  Now I guess I have to wait and see what this litter brings with the other stud.  But like  you said, if she is a carrier, it really doesn't matter who I breed her to, as she will always pass this on.  Is that correct?

And here is my ignorance again.  What is vWD? 

thnak you for your info, it's much appreciated.  I'm a small, but committed breeder and don't want to be doing damage to the breed I adore.  I started in the first place, to try to improve on what I had, not bring out the bad!

Sharon