Dumbbell problems.......advice please - Page 1

I'm looking for a motivational way to get my boy to hold the dumbbell when sitting in front of me.  He has a strong retrieve.  Loves to go and get the dumbbell,  return and sit.  He'll retrieve over the jump fairly well.  But apon his return he drops it as soon as he sits.   He'll 'bring' it from anywhere, and any position.  If I try and hand it to him while sitting, he is not very interested.  He'll mouth it, but not take and hold, or if he does, it is only for a second or two.  I have to bring it alive for him to  hold it.

I think I created the problem by outing his tug while in front of me.  Now I need to fix it.  I much prefer a  motivational way.  He is a soft dog, and does not do well with compulsion.  If I grab and play tug while he is in front of me, he'll clamp down, but still releases it as soon as I let go.

Thanks for any advice.

I've had this problem.  Just as he gets close with it back up excitedly and recharge him to move in faster, the way you would to keep him moving into a perfect alignment on a recall drill.  Then quickly reach forward and low and put your hand around his chin from below, holding him gently and encouraging and praising him.  Tilt his head up and the instant he makes eye contact simultaneously PRAISE and GRIP HIS CHIN AND PUSH IT UP SLIGHTLY AND GENTLY.  In other words, you are training and rewarding him for looking up at you with the dumbell in his grip.  Hold his mouth closed gently but firmly.  He is being praised for holding it up and looking at you and holding it still.

If you miss him and he drops it, depending upon his age, I would pout a bit, act chagrined and disappointed, then pick it up, put it in his mouth, hold his muzzle around it gently and walk backward giving him the bring command as he moves with you.

Ditto on the AKC dumbbell.  I have a very soft showline male who has great retrieve drive but would chew or drop it on return all of the time.  For 2 weeks, twice a day, off the field I would have him take the AKC dumbbell and hold it while praising him.  If he chewed I'd "ah-ah" which at first led to dropping it - if he didn't out right drop after a few seconds.  If he stopped chewing he got a calm "good hold," if he continued to chew he'd get a strong "no."  This would usually lead him to drop it.  Upon dropping it he would get a soft "no" and a slap under the chin, then a "bring!, bring,!" to induce him to pick it off the ground and the whole process would start over.  If he held it for a few seconds I'd praise and out him and start over.  Eventually we started stretching out the length of time he held it for 10-20 seconds but then started running him when he held it on a very short leash - continued with all steps above.

I did this for 2 solid weeks and we both were miserable with the  process - although he got it.  Took him back on the field and had to pop him under the chin once or twice - however for more then a year since he has (most of the time) a rock solid hold, will not drop the dumbbell ever and loves to retrieve as much as he ever did.  To this day, even in 100% drive with a toy or ball, if I say "hold" he locks his jaw up.

I don't know if there is a motivational only way to fix this problem.  I would say I was notvery excited to use the complusion method but trusted my trainers who've trained dozens of sport dogs and hundreds of pets.  In the end (as usual) they'd nailed the solution on the head - complusion was an effective answer in this case.  I'd like to add I was not slapping the hell out of my dog, in fact it was very slight - the emotional impact was very apparent however. 

-Calvin

Re-teach your hold from the side. Only when the dog is holding quiet  do you pivot into the front position. The dog must never get a correction from the front position. If he chews after retrieving in the front position you pivot to the side and make the dog quiet and the hold secure. You would now pivot quickly back to the win position{front} and reward. As the dog progresses he will infrequently chew and you would say NO and redo the exercise with him more than likely holding well on the second attempt. Remember that the dog should never get a correction in front during his entire career. This position is his end zone where he must score.

Macawpower58...Does your dog carry the dumbbell?...I mean while he's running does he keep it in his mouth...and if so...you might try breaking down the exercise into a couple smaller components...What I mean is first have your dog on a leash...like maybe 15' or so...and throw the dumbbell out and send him for it and when he gets to the dumbbell give him a little pop on the lead and then start to run around with him with the object still in his mouth...As your running...try and tap the object with your hand...and then just slow down and stop with him in front of you...It's ok if he lets it go at this time...All you're trying to accomplish at this time is for him to keep it in his mouth while running....then later you can ask for more...There is much more to this...and I would be willing to help if you'd like to contact me...

~Bob~

Thankyou so much for all the replys and advice.

Several posters have given me advice I'm going to put to use.

Realcold, I've never realised scolding in front could confuse the dog about the safety of the front position.  I'll remember that in all  forms of training.  Thanks.

I think the slight  compulsion stated above by Shasta, MVH, and Cledford would be ok with my male.  He can take direction, even slight compulsion, I just have to be careful with how much and how heavy.

Q man, yes he holds well while running, he'll retrieve, hold well on the way to me.  He'll jump, retrieve and hold on the way back.  He'll pick it up on the bring command where ever it lies.  Even if right in front of me.  It's just that at a sit, down it goes.  I have outed in from his tugs for several years in the front sit position.  Now it's biting me in the butt!

Thanks again, with the advice offered here, I think I have the solutions to get a handle on this.  Schutzhund1, here we come.

I left out that I did the side thing a lot to begin with - but not to avoid punishing him, but due to the fact that intially he also showed possession issues.  As far as correcting him in front, the theory makes sense and I'll probably keep it in mind in the future, but have corrected my dog plenty of times in front and not noticed an issue.

-Calvin

It sounds like your dog doesn't have any idea what the hold is so I would disagree with even slight compulsion until he knows that he is actually disobeying in the first place. I teach the hold very separate from the retrieve.

First teach him, by making a dumbbell sandwich. Dog, dumbbell, (treat or ball or tug) When dog opens his mouth to get the tug, shove the dumbbell in, praise, release and give tug. Gradually increase the time he holds the dumbbell in exchange for his tug game. I've had very good sucess with this method and no chewing.

In my opinion, his failure to hold the dumbbell has nothing to do with whatever you've done with the tug. Dogs don't want to hold wooden sticks calmly in front of you. Who would? They want to rip and tear and shove them into you, none of which has anything to do with a calm hold, as you are finding out.

Front position is Holy Ground. You have 5 recalls to this position in Sch 3. Corrections here will cause a dog th chew or slow down. Both cost points.