Non-conflict schutzhund - Page 2

kioanes,

That certainly explains everything.

Moon's.

I guess Moons you run into another poster that thinks he knows better than everyone else :) and as soon there is something that he dose not udnerstand or belive in, than that thing becomes wrong in his opinion. And he will try to convince you that you don't know what you talking about :) lol.

We see if he will think that way when he runs into one of the dogs, that will have mind on their own and go after his face with even slightes correction lol. Some dogs acutaly make you earn the respect before they give it to you. Thanks god I didn't run into a dog like that yet, but I heared of quite some people already.

I just feel that the poster doesn't like some of the training technique's they have seen and maybe with good reason.

There is a fine line here.    And every dog is different.   Trainer's are different.    One need's to be involved and not just turn it all over to someone else.   And some people should just not try.

Other's should work on their communication skill's.  

I meant "kiones". Not the original poster. I understand where the original poster is coming from. I see the face of new comers every day :).

BTW heald sugest go to Ed Frawley web page, I think that will be good start for you. I recomend his DVD on focus and drive building I think it is the first thing that you should start to work with your dog on. :). BTW I would keep my obedience to minimum, but that's my point of view :) some people like to start it early, I like to keep it to minimal and olny as a part of a game :).

i wasn't disagreeing, nor do i think i know better than everyone else - i did not understand moon's point.  it seems contradictory (see highlighted parts)

Oh sorry than I was wrong. Kioanes, his point is quite simple force is never the way to go, but there are dogs that you have no other choice. Like I said I seen quite few dogs that  you had to prove that you tough enough in order for them to respect you, so force sometimes need to be used, but it should be used in the right amount, and by someone with quite some experience. What some wrong kind of trainers are doing they start with force... Force should be the last thing you should ever use, at least that's my stand on the subject. You will use the dogs drives instead of the force he will be happy performer, you will use force well you will notice the difference fast. That's why focus work is so important it help the dog channel his drives through focus in the right way to accomplish the task.

I guess I mean there is a difference between trainer's.    And a difference between force and control.

Some people can't watch a dog being corrected without feeling it is too much, sometime's it is too much.

Some people don't understand any of it.    They don't understand a German Shepherd dog sometimes.    Its not like training a pet to sit and roll over for a cookie.

Yeah the is some contradiction to all rules.

Hello Laura,

Training without conflict does not mean training without corrections. It means training in a way that the dog understands and is fair. Ivan does use electronic and prong collars.

I'm not sure what you mean by training without conflict, Laura. As far as I know, all the trainers mentioned in this thread use prong collars and electronic collars, at least on some dogs for some things. But this doesn't have to mean conflict. Watch the Bernhard Flinks videos that Ed Frawley (Leerburg.com) sells. If you or your dog are not comfortable at a club or with a trainer, then look for another one. Do NOT send your dog away to be trained. You want to train with your dog to develop the bond between the two of you. Corrections are a normal part of training and shouldn't be seen as conflict as long as they are fair and appropriate. Hope this helps.

Wow,  The very title of this thread suggests a complete lack of knowledge of how pinch collars, e-collars, and corrections in general work and their purpose and place, especially when training dogs for grip work.  These methods have nothing to do with conflict.  If you think pinch collars and ecollars are harsh and if you think there is no psychology used along side force methods, you have much to learn.  I would suggest you go to as many clubs around you as possible to perhaps find one that meets your needs.  A word to the wise though, you will be better served watching and learning before passing judgment on equipment and methods you are not familiar with.  One more thing, many of us in the sport are women and use the methods you seem to take issue with.  Please remember we are working with dogs who bite, this is not a game, there is no room for error.