by havidad on 08 July 2014 - 23:07
If I wanted to "dump" a 10 year old dog for showing aggression to my child. Forgive me, I draw the line somewhere. I am sure that had he attacked her and been on the news, people would be sitting in their armchairs saying "what a bad parent".
Nonetheless, I never got rid of him and he continued to show the aggression until he died, but it was definitely a stressful period in the household.
Personally, for what you pay at Kimbertal or Big Dog Kennels, you can save at least $1k and get a quality top of (but still within) standard sized dog at a breeder like Darkstarr.
by Blitzen on 08 July 2014 - 23:07
by rtdmmcintyre on 09 July 2014 - 00:07
and now that I had a little bourbon. The pups nails are too long and the bitch with the pups has a bad ear cut. too much bell.
Dobermanman might correct me on if its to much bell or too short.
by Prager on 09 July 2014 - 14:07
rtdmmcintyre Reggie nowhere have I ridiculed you and I would be curious if you can point any inconsistencies. I would like to correct them. I really do not want to go into how show destroys the working breed.GSD is being destroyed by show to the point that we now have special "show branch" of a breed which if you ask me is pathetic And GSD is destroyed by IPO and SchH so that we now have sport branch of the breed which even German police rejected as a working dog. Dobermans and Rotts are not hepped by show ring either and only very few can compete in sport or be trained protection.
You ask and rightfully so: Who determines the best of a breed? an individual on their own? that is what ruins a breed when everyone on their own makes their own determination. As we all know very seldom are two people going to agree completely. so how could everyone make a determination and still be one breed? That is determined by and breed is set by its original standard and not by organization who claims to enforce it. The breed is set by honest breeders who adhere to such standard. Yes thsat is hard to do. But from my experience I would say that Kimertall did it better then most showing or not. Kimbertal also has ( or had when I was there that is all I can attest to ) high standard for temperament of the breed. I can say so because when I was there I have trained their dogas and 90%+ of all of their Rotts and Dobes in protection and they did percentage-wise better then GSD odes now as far as ability to be protectors and they were discriminative protectors for family. Physically they were sturdy even so they were bigger then they should have been. That is why I am saying what I am saying about breed standard and organized showing and titling in general. Even if i you are minority of one truth is the truth. ( Gandhi) and thus just because you are operating under ouspices of some organization does not mean that you are benefiting the breed.
I am very consistent in this and I have never said different.
by Dobermannman on 09 July 2014 - 14:07
I can't help you with any ear crop info. All my Dobermanns for the last 10 years have been uncropped :-)
by Prager on 09 July 2014 - 15:07
Havidad. If the dog shows aggression to a child there are several reasons for that and there are several remedies and one of them is to manage the situation in a way that the dog does not have access to a child and you keeping the child away from the dog. Dog who is 10 years old can not be trained not to be that way. Rott of that age is usually at the gate of death and such training in such age is not reasonable. Also let me tell you the dog you had was very good since at any time he could had bitten the child which you allowed to pester him, but instead he was giving him and to you warning to keep the child away from him WHICH SHOWED GREAT RESTRAINED ON THE DOG'S PART.. He probably was in some kind of a pain or his nerves were worn out thin by his age BUT HE STILL ACTED WELL. .
The fact I believe in is that when you get a dog you accepting a responsibility for the dog for his entire life and not only when it is convenient. Old dogs get sick, and cranky and if you are getting a puppy you should look in the future to realize that. You said that you spoke against Kimbertal and Bob because in his typical way Bob told you that putting a dog of 10 years into a kennel is not a good idea. I fully agree with him. In long run it worked out well, you learned and did the right thing. You did not dump the dog and kept the dog in a way that he did not hurt the child and could finish his life and his service to you next to your side - the place where he loved to be. You did the right thing. .... thanks to Bob. Mabe you should call him and thank him rather then berate him here. I am sure if your dog could,.... he would.
by beetree on 09 July 2014 - 15:07
Actually, this thread illustrates my opinion that breeder warranties and guarantees are entirely dependent on the honor of the breeder. This presents a false sense of value to the buyer.
If a buyer tries to use that option, look what happened! They are damned if they do!
by Prager on 09 July 2014 - 15:07
beetree I am sure if you would insist Kimbertal would take the dog and put him down and they would do it even so warranty talks about a rott or dobe pup and not 10 years old dog. That is evens so I know that Kimbertall will acept older dogs.
If at any time during the life of a Kimbertal Doberman or Rottweiler, the pup is found not to be compatible with the situation of the original purchaser, the pup may be returned (along with their AKC certificate) to the kennel, and be replaced at no charge. The owner’s “word” is all that is needed for the replacement.
(Emphasis of word "pup" was added by me. )
Also nowhere in the warranty it says what will happen with such dog if they take it back. READ The FING WARRANTY BEFORE YOU BUY THE DOG!!!! and if you do not like it do not buy the dog. But in the end it is not about warranty but about doing the right thing by the dog. And Bob did the right thing by telling the truth and thus scaring the owner into doing the right thing ....which he did. Telling the truth and doing the right thing. Is that so bad? It is not about what you want to hear but it si about reality and truth.
If you want to beat a dog, you will always find a stick. ( CZ proverb) I guess some people here are looking really hard to find a stick to beat on Kimbertal. It is a favorite activity to beat up on sucess.
by rtdmmcintyre on 09 July 2014 - 16:07
you say Kimbertal was better then most then you turn around and say their dogs are to big.
You believe in training but don't believe in IPO or in any sort of trial. So where is the proof of what the dogs can do? The problem is when people become "just take my word for it." And if titles mean so little why would they be willing to refund money if the new owner puts titles on their dogs. there is another inconsistency. Here another problem arises when a person or even a group of people want to disregard the breed standard regardless of if it is in size or in structure. And I have seen plenty of their dogs. if you think they are good dogs then I really question your ability to make any kind of judgment. I have seen plenty of their dogs. none of them impressed me as far as adherence to the breed standard.
by beetree on 09 July 2014 - 16:07
Easy there Prager, you will give yourself apoplexy. I do believe "lifetime guarantee" is posted a few pages back. How would you define, "lifetime"? I think it means any time while still alive. A buyer might think it means an older dog returned, will be cared for or rehomed, when instead it is an offer to PTS.
Buyers should also familiarize themselves with the difference between a warranty and a guarantee.
It is a marketing tool, one you champion. I get it.