puppy panic, please help - Page 1

Hi forum.

I got in over my head and need some advice quickly from folks well-versed in the world of German Shepherds.

I knew enough to look for good health history, so the puppy I just purchased has that (screens). I am not worried about the physical well-being of the puppy.

However, I did not understand the whole working line/Schutzhund scene. The breeder told me that both parents are BH Schutzhund certified, which I inferred meant the dog had even temperament. I asked whether that meant the puppy would not be a good family dog (I have two children under four and one on the way) and the breeder assured me that it's all how you raise the puppy and that Schutzhund parents doesn't mean that a puppy will grow up wanting to bite people.

When we went to meet the breeder, dam, and litter, the dam was reticent and wearing an electric collar, and the breeder was wearing a zapper lanyard. Despite the red flags this raised for me, the kids were excited and I was deer in headlights and I went ahead and purchased the puppy (I recognize now that I should not have brought my children with me-- but everything had seemed totally fine with the breeder up until that point, I'd seen multiple photos and videos etc.).

Did I make a bad decision? The puppy seems totally lovely and normal and had I not met the dam I would be spooked. But now I am worried that I have made a bad decision for my family that we will regret.

Can anyone who knows more about the Schutzhund scene help me out here?

Many thanks in advance.

Many dogs with schutzhund titles see the protection work as a big game. They are also focused on the sleeve, and if the decoy isn't wearing it, they have no interest in biting him.

The mother's behaviour would have spooked me, OTOH, as the pups learn a lot from the mom. However, each pup in a litter is an individual, and there is no guarantee your pup will turn out like the mother. It could also be she was being protective of her pups, and the breeder had the collar on her in case she decided to attack this stranger that wanted to see her little ones.

There are way too many variables here to say just how well the pup will work out. As a rule, though, German shepherds are a strong breed, and it is never too early to start teaching the pup (and your kids!) the ground rules.

Number one rule: never leave young children with the puppy unattended.

A few other basic safely rules: don't let them bother the dog while its eating. Do not let them chase the puppy or the puppy chase them. This can trigger prey drive in the puppy, and cause serious problems, especially as it gets bigger. Start teaching the puppy to be gentle around the kids. Discourage mouthing and nipping, with a stern 'no bite', and offer the pup a toy instead, then praise it for taking the toy.

If you've never trained a dog before, especially a large dog, seek out a reputable trainer for help. The whole family needs to get involved so you are on the same page with training this new family member!

Wait: just re-read your post. The BH certificate is a basic obedience degree, and has nothing to do with bitework. Did the breeder say the parents had a Schutzhund or IPO 1, 2 or 3 degree? Those involve bitework, but the BH, which must be passed before the dog can do IPO or schutzhund training, just involves on and off-leash obedience with the dog. Can you show us the parents' pedigrees? What are their names?

Excellent posts from Sunsilver; I'd go further and say "try to stop panicking!"
Pleguin, you have learnt two excellent lessons for the next time you buy a
puppy ie always see and feel safe around the mother (you could have asked
the breeder why the e collar was necessary ?); and don't take the kids to a
'first & only' viewing !
However, you bought this puppy, and you have to work with what you've got.
It won't help the pup, your children or you, to spend time worrying and apprehensive
about what might happen in the future; it's your responsibility now to ensure this
baby grows up well-socialised and trained in basic obedience.
The pup sounds delightful from the little you tell us so far - find a good trainer and/or
Club to work with and best of luck ! Come back and tell us about your progress.

What Sunsilver wrote is partially correct, the first phase of the BH is just the healing pattern which includes healing through a group and this is done both on and off lead/leash. The second phase of the BH is a temperament test where the dog is put in different senerios such as: being tied out to a post, the handler walks away from sight leaving the dog on their own, at which point a neutral dog is then walked by the dog being tested. The are other parts to this phase such as evaluating how the dog deals with: Pedestrians walking by the dog and handler, joggers going by, people riding by on bicycles and cars passing. Another part of this phase of the BH, the judge will ask that the handler stands by their dog, and a group of people surround the dog-handler team and close ranks in a non threatening way and then they back up. Most judges at this point will request the handler put the dog in a down and step outside the group, then ask the group to close ranks in on the dog agian in a non threatening way and then ask the handler to call the dog to them.
This is the real point of the BH, to show the dog is stable in public and has a decent set of nerves and shows what the the dog being evaluated is 'a loof' around people and non threating situations. the point of Phase A (the obedience portion) to demonstrate that the dog is trainable and willing to work. Think of the BH as a more intense version of AKC's multiple Canine Good Citizen Test(s).

I'll probably get blasted for this but I feel it needs to be said.

A lot of the language you've used in the title of this post and the wording of the post itself, is sending up red flags.

If you are having buyer's remorse and are now also feeling you got in over your head, you should honestly consider and discuss with your significant other, whether or not keeping this puppy is in the best interest of your family and the puppy itself.

If you are always going to look at this puppy and see the 'bad experience' you had with the dam and your children 'deer in headlighting' you into purchasing the puppy, then that's not fair to the puppy or you. The puppy is already being burdened with responsibility it has no control over and you may find yourself making small issues into big ones because you feel regretful about the purchase.

So before you commit to the training that comes with ANY dog, especially a breed like the German Shepherd, ask yourself will you do so with a fair mind? Or should you consider returning this puppy, take some more time to really research and understand what you're purchasing and trying again.

I'll probably get blasted for this but I feel it needs to be said.

A lot of the language you've used in the title of this post and the wording of the post itself, is sending up red flags.

If you are having buyer's remorse and are now also feeling you got in over your head, you should honestly consider and discuss with your significant other, whether or not keeping this puppy is in the best interest of your family and the puppy itself.

If you are always going to look at this puppy and see the 'bad experience' you had with the dam and your children 'deer in headlighting' you into purchasing the puppy, then that's not fair to the puppy or you. The puppy is already being burdened with responsibility it has no control over and you may find yourself making small issues into big ones because you feel regretful about the purchase.

So before you commit to the training that comes with ANY dog, especially a breed like the German Shepherd, ask yourself will you do so with a fair mind? Or should you consider returning this puppy, take some more time to really research and understand what you're purchasing and trying again.

BIG THUMBS UP..... Where is that darn agree button :)

Agree with RLHAR 100%; In your first few words I could tell that your decision to get this puppy was regretful; and no need to be regretful probably all of us have been there at least once, myself more than once. What I look back on now after raising, training, breeding and housing dogs for 40+ years is the simple fact that you know when your purchase of a dog or puppy is the right decision and when it is the wrong decision. When I have made the wrong decision my only regret when I look back is that I did not act on my instinct's and return the puppy after a short amount of trying to make it work. I held onto to the puppy and grew up the puppy into adulthood and still at six years old was not the right decision for the dog or myself. BUT I did not have 2 little kids and one on the way, I could devote my time to the puppy/dog trying and trying to make the impossible work and still ended up placing the puppy now dog at a later date. NOT FAIR TO THE DOG... or to yourself. I probably will not forgive myself for that mistake. However the dog is doing fine in her new home thank you very much BUT really I should have known better. Sooooo, I am speaking from experience and I hope this will help you make the right decision for your family and most importantly the puppy. Best of luck in whatever you decide but know that you need to start training now asap wilh the help of a trainer and that training, raising, caring and socializing this puppy is for the lifetime of the dog, not just a few weeks or months, so ask yourself 'CAN YOU MAKE THAT COMMITMENT TO THE PUPPY'?? Good luck Nan

The breeder might have used the e-collar because he knew that small children were coming...like "just in case...".
We don´t know the temperament of the dam, and we don´t know the temperament of the sire, so everything is a guess.
Americans as a whole are quick in using e-collars ( not always knowing what they are doing ).
Maybe the dam is "overly friendly" and the breeder was afraid she´d knock the children down ( a lot of different possibilities coming to my mind ).

To the OP: A BH title doesn´t say much about the character of a dog - it only says that someone put some time and effort into training basic obedience.
Every breed is able to achieve a BH title, the dog doesn´t need to be suitable for Schutzhund work - and even within IPO/SchH you need to distinguish between prey driven dogs and civil dogs. Most of the dogs nowadays are prey driven first and foremost, they are not "dangerous".

After all a German Shepherd is no toy, and this breed is no pet breed.
That said not only the puppy, but your children need to learn how to behave. NEVER leave your children unsupervised with a German Shepherd ( with no dog of any kind ), and explain your children to NEVER tease the pup, NEVER grap its food or toy, and to NEVER bother a sleeping or tired dog, not willing to "play". Most German Shepherds do "tolerate" children, but for all of them there is the point of " enough is enough" - your children are very small, so it´s up to you.

These rules are fundamental rules for me, and I am a mother who raised several puppies with a child. I never had problems, and my dogs were no "pets" at all. For my kid the dogs have been the best buddies, very, very important for his development, but we always followed the rules.

There is nothing better than children and dogs growing up together in a respectful way - just go for it!

A good book for dog owners with kids: Childproofing Your Dog, by B. Kilcommon.
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwiwrOblrcDJAhXppIMKHRSvCqMQFggfMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.ca%2FChildproofing-Your-Dog-Complete-Preparing%2Fdp%2F0446670162&usg=AFQjCNGw25IYZ5mgjYDIqft04SinBXKGWA&sig2=1KJnDF2twkhcyxomGA6GdQ

His nunber one rule is to NEVER leave your dog alone with small kids. You never know what they might do!

Case in point: older dog that had always been good with kids bit a toddler. He was immediately shipped off to the vet for euthanasia. Fortunately, the vet had the sense to check for a possible reason for the bite.

She found 2 crayons in the dog's ears!

Even a good-natured dog has its limits!