Hip/elbow/health guarantees/warranties and what would you do? - Page 1

I am currently actively looking for an older puppy or young adult female GSD to join Kiera (my currently just over 2yo GSD spayed female) and I in training for competition obedience and tracking. I placed an ad both here and in some of the FB GSD groups. The response has beenwonderful, and I have narrowed my choices down to 2, possibly 3 dogs. I prefer the bi-colors or black and tans (and, yes, before someone gripes because I am color specific, I do know that color does not a dog make, but these are my preferences). I want short hair, a fairly flat top line with moderate angulation behind with a social, confident temperament. Environmentally sound with strong nerves. Medium sized at maturity. I will eventually want to breed this female, once titled and as long as hip/elbow and helth tests are all good. My ultimate goal, over the next couple of years, is to train and title 2 females and a male and start a very small breeding program geared toward the competition obedience and tracking enthusiasts. My thought was to acquire a female first because, if I title her and all of her tests pan out, then I can find an outside male and still breed her if I have not found or finished training/titling and health checking my own male. Dogs must either be fully AKC registered or be able to be at some point for breeding purposes. My quandary, and question to everyone, is this. Of the 3 dogs that really check the boxes, 2 are black females (not one black and tan or bi-colored female has been offered for consideration), and the 3rd is a black and tan male. Even though I had originally thought I would prefer to begin with a female for the above reasons, I Really like this black and tan male. He is pretty much what I had in mind when I did eventually start looking for a male pup to join the girls and I. The problem is this--His breeder does not offer any kind of a hip/elbow/health guarantee/warranty except for in the case of CHD, in which case the only offered resolution in the contract is a partial refund of the purchase price of the dog and that only after the dog is returned to the breeder. The 2 females come with hip/elbow and health guarantees, and one has a suitability guarantee on her as well. The male pup is from the breeders first ever litter, his sire has excellent hips, his dam has fair hips. I have looked at a lot of puppies, and the majority have at least hip guarantees or warranties on them. I asked the breeder why they chose not to offer any guarantee, and the response was this.

We chose to not offer a written warranty because we are very confident when it comes to the health of these puppies due to our knowledge of not just their sire and dam, but also of their extended family. And although we don't have a written warranty, we stand behind these puppies 100% and will do everything we can in order to make things right in the event of any genetic deficiency or issue. We want to make sure our puppy buyers are happy throughout the lifetime of the dogs. We also have a belief that there is an inherent risk when purchasing a puppy and as long as the research is done on the part of the purchaser and the breeder to ensure the healthiest possible dogs, there is no need for a warranty. There are also many other factors that might contribute to disease or hip dysplasia which in our opinion make it very difficult to warranty the hips without placing undue stipulations on our puppy buyers. We focus heavily on the working ability of the dogs and puppies we produce and purchase and understand that health is a risk when dealing with living beings.

What are the thoughts/opinions on this breeder's stand? This male is really tempting me, but I'm a little hesitant.

So is this a puppy male? If so how old??

Male pup is 4.5 months old.

Not going to pass judgment on breeders theory or thought, those are his, does not make him right or wrong. Just his opinion.

I would pass on the male where there is one there will be more later and this throws your plan off.

If you are not sure on the females pass on them too.  Same rules apply if their is one there will be more.  

It may be another month or two before you find them but you will.  Do not settle or rush because you spend a month or two looking and did not find what you wanted 

It is never the smarter thing to get a male when you only have 1-3 females to breed.  Far better to get the top quality females then breed out to the best.  Now you can hold back if you want build up your group of females then buy a male that can be used on all of them.

I agree with western.
If they stand with their dogs 100%, why not offer a written warrenty?
Plenty of other good dogs out there that will suit you. If you are having reservations already, I would pass.
Good luck, keep us posted on any new additions!

Have the breeder do hip exrays sent to ofa before buying him, at their cost. If they will not do that, then pass.
Nobody, but nobody, can guarantee a pup won't develop HD no matter how many pedigrees they research. For that reason, I would not consider dealing with the breeder of the male pup.

Pass on all puppies; find a different breeder in a reasonable area for you to travel and go look and evaluate puppies. You want a written, signed agreement between you and the breeder; you also definitely do want health certifications on both parents and hopefully puppies have been health checked prior to leaving breeder's premises for anything and everything possible. This is only a very small amount of insurance that you can get.

Nan

Sorry Western and Hntr; wasn't asking if the breeder was right or wrong, just asking if I was wrong to be concerned about this. The other pups from the litter have all already sold (this was their pick male who they've now decided to sell), so obviously the other puppy buyers weren't worried about the lack. The thoughts you have all posted are where my thoughts had pretty much already gone, just wanted to see how others felt.

When many have the last puppy to sell nobody wants the  last puppy something must be wrong with it etc.  He was my pick but now 4 weeks later I have changed my mind etc

Works well when you have a small pup and he needs more time to grow too. Food for thought

This pup is old enough for a pre lim x ray have him get one on this pup if you really want him.  If he passes then you pay if he fails he pays. I have  done this many times. I still say pass on any male for the reasons I mentioned before.

I never meant  nor think I did that the breeder was right or wrong.  Tried to make it clear that he had a right to his way.  Many do not give guarantees some don't even want one when they buy  

Everybody has their way and a right to it with out criticism

Op, if you want a male puppy, and you like this puppy, its your call to own a male or not. As I said previously, have the breeder send exrays to ofa at their cost....after all, they are the one who must verify the puppy is what they claim it is.
As for him being the last pup in the litter....some body has to be last unless the pups are sold and go to new homes simultaneously.
I own a male now,two yr old, that was the smallest in the litter, lots smaller. He is a big strapping dog now, lean and muscular 80 pounds.