Demedex - Page 1

All the literature I've read, and several Vets I've consulted all agree that if a puppy or puppies are diagnosed with Demedex, the Dam should never be bred again. The breeder I purchased my GSD from out of Miami refuses to accept this and basically accused me of causing the outbreak on my puppy by somehow stressing him. She has no intention of not breeding this dog again. I paid top dollar for this puppy. What is the general concensus on this from other reputable breeders? Thanks, Debby (and Taser Luchs Vom Couciero)

If this were the response from the vet, I would be suspicious. Could be a slightly depressed immune system. Many vets take you down a bad road with skin issues. They find mites, give you the sulfer shampoo which doesn't work it as it's usually and internal vs. external problem. Next is antibiotics which makes the problem worse, then you get prendesone which masks the symptoms. They shuffle their lack of success off on 'bad genetics".

Give the puppy a chance. It needs a good diet. I would do raw before I wrote it off and see what happens.
 

<sigh> Some breeders really do need to do a better job of providing information about common situations their puppy buyers may encounter as their pup grows up.

This is not an uncommon ailment in puppies, and a bit of research will provide you with a good deal of information on the condition, and when it's considered to be a minor incident that just needs to be treated and not really worried about, and when it should be reason to discontinue repeating the breeding that produced an affected dog.

In short, ALL dogs have the demodex mite living on their bodies. ALL of them. The pups acquire them from their dam shortly after their birth.

In fact, even humans have our own variety of this mite, which lives in the hair follicles, and can most easily be found in the nasolabial fold of skin between one's nostrils and their cheek, or in wax samples taken from the human ear.

The demodex mite is usually what is called a commensal parasite--that is, an organism that derives a benefit from its host while neither causing harm nor benefiting the host organism.  Human or animal, most of the time there is no response to the presence of these mites in the skin, and we all go along happily with our respective lives.

But in some instances, the presence of the mites can cause hair loss, inflammation and other clinical signs in the host.  In dogs, such clinical signs can occur in pups that have gone through stressful situations, such as can be created when a pup is shipped to a new owner, has experienced a serious illness, or even just in response to vaccinations. When the condition occurs in immature dogs, the problem is not one to be overly concerned about, as it generally affects an isolated area [usually around the pup's eyes or muzzle, and the ears] and resolves quickly with treatment and elimination of whatever was causing the pup stress. Most pups that experience a single episode recover uneventfully, and never have another breakthrough for the rest of their lives. Some pups will have more than one episode, but it's always localized, and always clears up quickly with treatment and the resolution of whatever is stressing the puppy; in those pups, there should be a slight level of concern because it may signal that the dog's immune system isn't as strong as it ought to be. These pups may go on to develop environmental and/or food allergies, but many of them outgrow the problem and once matured, are no different than any other normal, healthy dog. 

When demodicosis becomes a serious issue is when the condition is either (a) not localized, but rather spreads across the pup's body, and resists basic treatment protocols, or (b) continues to occur well after the pup has reached maturity.  When neither of these situations exist, it is a clear indicator that the dog's immune system is flawed, and when a particular pairing of stud and bitch produces such a pup, a responsible breeder does not repeat that mating again. That does not necessarily mean that neither parent should be bred again, but if either should produce another chronically-affected offspring [or already had done so prior to this pairing] a truly responsible breeder WILL completely eliminate the dog or bitch as a breeding animal, and consider doing so with the offspring previously produced by the animal in question. 

All this said, I'm not familiar with the breeder of your pup, so you'd need to do much more investigation to determine if the parents of your pup have previously produced pups with generalized demodicosis, and if other pups in your pup's litter have had a demodectic episode. You should be able to ask your pup's breeder these things and expect a truthful answer, but what happens far too often is the breeder doesn't warn the buyers in advance that this is one of the more common temporary conditions that can affect puppies [along with puppy vaginitis and urinary tract infections in female pups, and what's typically called 'puppy acne', a staph infection that should also be self-limiting and localized if it's nothing more than a response to stress]; because the buyer isn't aware that these are not unusual puppyhood maladies, the buyer often panics and becomes angry with the breeder, thinking they've been sold a 'flawed' or unhealthy puppy. The buyer contacts the breeder, but since the buyer's already upset that conversation rarely goes well, and an adversarial situation is created with a loss of trust on both sides.

So at the moment, going solely from the info you've supplied above, I'd have to say that what the breeder of your pup is telling you is accurate. That, of course, could change depending on any additional facts that come to light. Hopefully, now that you have confirmation of what your breeder was telling you--that the condition in puppies tend to be triggered by stress [I think perhaps you misunderstood, and thought the breeder was accusing you of intentionally causing your pup to feel stressed, when in fact they were trying to point out that shipping, or even just leaving their littermates and mother, causes some level of stress in puppies]--and you can resume contact with them on better terms so you will continue to have the their support as you raise your GSD.   If that bridge is already too badly burned, then I'm sure the members here, harsh and obnoxious as some of us can be at times, will help you out when you have questions or concerns.

Most of all, enjoy and love your puppy with everything you've got!

Hexe, VERY nicely explained!! Thank you!!

Excellent reply, Hexe!

Excellent informative reply Hexe

Hexe! Thank you so much for a well explained and logical explanation. My initial response was a kneejerk reaction, then I read some, discussed some, and I understand all dogs have the mite, so I calmed down. But then after consulting further with additional Vets, and further research the issue of a possible immunocompromised puppy came back to the forefront. I picked Taser up from the breeder at 10 weeks old, he's 10 months old now and this has just happened. He has a spot on his ear, his muzzle, and his flank. I cannot for the life of me understand what could have stressed him, other than which toy to play with next! His diet is unchanged, he lives inside but gets plenty of exercise on my 5 acres etc... You understand what I mean. I don't know the history of any of the other litters, or puppies from this litter, and doubt the breeder would be willing to share that. After she replied to my e-mail I sent her another one back questioning her response and she never replied to me. I can tell you that your explanation does make me feel better however, a lot better. Taser has had absolutly no issues at all until this, he is an incredible puppy, and in fact, the spots on his ear and muzzle already seem to look better without initiating any treatment, and he's not developed any other areas. (Trust me, I'm watching!) The spot on his flank I think looks better. Anyway, thank you so much for taking the time to reply to me, I really appreciate it! And trust me, seeing how caring all you guys are, if I have any other concerns I will sure turn to you for your help and advice. Thanks again, Debby

99% of dogs and most humans have mites !bacteria,etc living under the skin.

Environment, food quality, stress, stressors , etc, etc.....at any time anything could stress a dog, just a vaccination, a pesticide, another dog or animal...any of these will lower the dogs immune system and voila, demedex comes out....IVOMEC  injected @ 0.10 per 10 lbs of body weight, twice, 11 days apart.....yoghurt, probiotics will always help.

Vets ALWAYS tell you it's the breeders fault and the breeder will have to pay you back, so you can spend your money at the vet.....oldest scam in the book.

If you haven't changed his diet in awhile, there's a good chance he's gotten everything he can from that food and needs a change. Try switching foods and see if it doesn't clear up.

Ivermectin is the treatment suggested. The shampoo was offered as well. Whats your thoughts on diet, other than raw? (Brand-wise) With that being said, is a mix of raw and dry an acceptable way to go as well? Does it have to be 100% raw? Yikes. Maybe just a link to a good reputable nutritional site? Maybe I should give you guys a little background info so you'll understand where I'm coming from. I'm not completely ignorant when it comes to raising dogs, I've had them all my life, in fact I can't remember a time in my life I didn't have one. And I've had mutts, big dogs, little dogs, ugly dogs and cute dogs. I've always kept them healthy, had them on heartworm prevention, used flea prevention, kept them fed, sheltered, NEVER EVER chained a dog, etc.  In other words, I do take good care of my dogs. I certainly don't have the knowledge that I am reading on some of these threads however- the jargon used is foreign in some instances!  I've had AKC registered dogs, but never have I paid what I paid for this puppy, and here's why. About 12 years ago I got a male GSD. Gorgeous dog. Love of my life. About a year later I got a female, beautiful girl, loved her too. Both AKC. Both from backyard breeders. They were inseperable. She developed hip dysplasia at about 8 and eventually we had to put her down. That was the beginning of the end for my male. He went about a year later.  That's why I spent the money to buy from a reputable breeder who would guarantee hips etc, so when he came down with mange, and Vets said "genetic"- well- you get the picture. So, thanks for listening, and your advice. I want to give him the best, whatever it takes.