White House fence jumper - Page 2

True joanro, the man who shot Pres Reagan also didn't lift his shirt to show he was unarmed either. Trained dogs are a deadly weapon, just as I would hope that law enforcement personnel use judgment when deciding to use a gun I would hope they use judgment when deploying an attack dog. In this instance it appears to me that the dogs did what they were supposed to do, keep the intruder contained until appropriate personnel could apprehend him. 

The first dog is a 5 year old Malinois called Jordan.  The second was a 6 year old black Malinois called Hurricane. At first I thought the first dog was kicked so hard he was injured, but both dogs were cleared by a vet and "returned to work" right away, leading me to believe that the first dog might have some issues since he bailed out of the fight if the kick did not even injure him. The video I saw says they purchase their dogs for $4500, not sure where. Some of the sniffer dogs looked like sporting breeds.

When I visited the WH two years ago, they had a GSD going over every vehicle that was coming in off the public road.  We were given tickets to a special event and allowed to walk all over the property (behind the fence), right up to the door.  We saw President Obama in the Oval Office and he came out and waved at everyone.  I didn't see any other dogs on duty in that area but they did have snipers on the rooftops and plenty of armed people on the ground.

Hell, I'm surprised that we've got so many people capable of jumping the damn fence--a higher fence, for one thing, might be a spanking good part of a plan, too.

Maybe we should put a moat in while we're at it, and we can stock it with excess 'gators from the Everglades...

Seriously, though, the time has long since arrived that we need to improve the barrier around the building--maybe having an electric fence energizer, along the lines of the type used for livestock, gives a hell of a jolt without being lethal, and seems like a no-brainer for hooking up to an 8- or 10-foot high interior fence that should be set well inside the main perimeter fencing that everyone seems to be able to jump these days.  

Sadly, a good deal of this sort of thing serves primarily to further underscore the tremendous lack of mental health care availability in this country. Unless a person has demonstrated that they pose an immediate risk of harming themselves or someone else, the wait time for an appointment, even to see just a counselor, can be months--of little benefit to someone whose psyche is telling them they have to execute a particular course of action immediately.

I can't say I want my government using lethal force against somone just because they manage to get onto the White House lawn--let's make it more difficult for them to get there, and let's make sure there are a sufficient number of security guards stationed all around the property so no one who does make it on there can't get more than a few feet into the grounds.

Saw pix of that fence recently - after the previous jumper ? - when they were talking about building another one

(outside / inside it ?).  Thought then that it seemed awfully low for a fence surrounding such a primary building.

The fence around Buck House is twice as high, yet we have still had intruders get in, and in one case actually

reach the Queen.

Very useful idea on what to do with Florida's excess aligators, btw. 

cher pup; Dogs are not lethal weapons. A lethal dog bite would most likely be from multiple wounds and loss of blood. Lifting the front of your shirt as the dog is in action is not surrendering. What about a back pack filled with C-4 or a hand gun in your pants? I worry about who is learning what about our ability to protect our national assets. 27 crazies did what on 9-11-2001? Who would protest now, with what we know, if an employee of the airport took away a box cutter from a passanger and said '' you will not need this on this flight'' ?

In my opinion dogs can be one of the most devastating weapons in combat-if trained for that. Just because a dog is in EOD, drug or tracking service in the military or police doesn't mean he's trained for close combat.most of those dogs are trained to attack an IDed enemy with one bite to the arm or leg, whichever is easier to reach. Dogs trained for combat however may often also have one or more of the above mentioned uses although their main purpose is to enter a room first and come back out to signal whether a threat exists. An enemy would be attacked with snapping, constant everchanging bites to arm, neck or legs.

It's just two different categories and types of training. I think the secret service needs some of the latter category.

a few things, #1 you can train all you want, you never know how a dog is going to react till the shit goes down.  The dog obviously didn't perform at all up to standard.  #2, any grown man should probably be able to win in a dog fight :)  they can bite and hang on, you're 150lbs more than they are and should be able to choke and beat the crap out of them.  they're there to assist, the humans better get in and help against someone with the will to win.  #3  this call for deadly force against a man lifting his shirt and standing there?  Dream up all the scenarios you want.  if there'd have been a deadly shooting at that point in the video I'd be asking for the secret service man's head.  I know so many are all to willing to live in a shoot first as later society.  I'm all for having people of the gov't and private citizens be able to make that choice, but when it doesn't hold up to the sniff test be prepared to suffer the consequences you bring upon yourself.  In this case, there was no case for a shooting.

I'm not making for lethal force. In my opinion The right procedure would have been: 

1. Man starts/attempts to climb fence - guard with dog reacts by approaching them, while that happens sniper with non-lethal ammunition takes aim. 2. Guard warns verbally if intruder continues guard pulls gun (lethal). 3. If intruder jumps fence sniper fires with non-lethal ammunition.dog and guard secure intruder.If intruder resists arrest dog attacks ( non lethal arm or leg)