Calcium phosphorous - Page 1

I am reading information on this topic and the things that can happen when the amounts are too high or too low. Does anyone know the proper amount for a GSD?

I cannot furnish exact numbers-I just know there is a correct ratio between these two (2) elements that must be maintained. In other words, too much calcium will upset the balance with phosphorous. The calcium is very easy to overdo because of calcium supplements that are sold in pet stores. Is it because we were raised as children with an extreme emphasis on calcium for our own bodies? Maybe that is why many see calcium additives to be crucial to a growing puppy. I always suspected some parts of the so-called recommended food triangle were influenced by the different lobbies for the agriculture industry, but I digress. And we know that long-term calcium supplements can have a devastating effect on the growing bones of a puppy. A properly-formulated dog food should have the correct amounts of both elements. That said; who makes this perfect food? I know what I feed and it seems to work well; but is it the best? How can the correct amounts be maintained through the first year of a puppy's life and an adult's life? Only by periodically increasing the amount fed as the puppy grows, and then using adult food when the time comes. And I suppose that we all do that. Past all that, the only thing that I will add is that when I suspect calcium insufficiency (i.e. the ears remain floppy or are slow to stand while the adult teeth are being made) then I supplement the puppy's diet with raw chicken parts and bones, especially small pieces of neck. These are a source of NATURAL calcium and phosphourus, and have a bit of natural protein as well. Since this represents exactly some of the things that a dog would eat if he lived in the wild it provides support for people who choose to feed a raw diet to their dogs. No answers for your question; but I am sure that someone somewhere has a scientific answer. Maybe you should contact a speciality dog food manufacturer such as Royal Canin. Since they make a GSD-specific food and are sponsoring many of the GSD events they should be happy to provide some insight into your question. Let us know what you find out. Bob-O

Thank you for your insight. I am feeding raw and was worried about giving my boy too many bones. Nothing clear cut about this diet, but he is healthy and I just keep plugging away and hope I am doing the right thing.

In my opinion, since you are not using store-purchased calcium supplements you are probably doing fine. If he is from six (6) to ten (10) months of age and develops Pano in one (1) or two (2) legs, then you know that you are possibly overdoing it. I should add that males tend to be a bit predisposed to Pano because of their heavier bones and faster growth rate. Bob-O

Bobby O, your replies to posts stay in the A plus with me, keep up the good work and I am sure the writers appreciate your help.

Proper Calcium : Phosphorus ratio is 1.2 : 1 If you add to your dogs diet you can throw off this important balance. Calcium supplements are not needed when feeding a high quality premium food, it is designed to fit your dogs needs. The ratio of organ meats is way off. So giving liver is ok for a small treat, giving liver frequently spells trouble. Green tripe is very close to the ideal ratio. Especially with growing pups you do not want to mess with that. We always recommend limiting puppy formula for the first few months in a dogs life, such as up to 4 months and then go to a good adult dog food that is also suitable for growing pups, such as Eagle Pack Original Adult. It has the proper ratio. If you add some chewies and some veggies on the side that should suffice for treats. Anything extra should be given as an extra meal not mixed under the food.

gottagsd, when feeding raw, especially to a growing pup, you really need to know what you are doing. I recommend getting some serious books on the subject and soon. Or talk to your breeder if they feed raw too. There are some good commercial raw diets out there as well that you can buy prepackaged. If you are worried, look for signs such as ears not going up, front feet turning out, very low on pastern, hocks in back turning in, knee joints pointing out, achy uncoordinated movement, stiff when getting up, getting stiff or achy after bouts of play or exercise, body being loose and wobbly (puppy needs to grow up with a firm and taught body). If everything looks fine, chances are he is fine. But... raw is a tricky diet. You need to be a small expert to do it right. The joints you cannot see even if on the outside all looks fine.

Thanks for the numerical ratio, D.H.. I presumed that it was approximately 1:1, but was never sure. I never used the raw diet, but I know that that it must be formulated to provide the same types and quality of nutrients as a processsed food, and at the same time keep them in their proper ratios. I am glad you brought up the issue with organ meat, as this source contains a much higher level of protien per gram than does other muscle tissue. This is not a plug for Royal Canin GSD Maxi, but that is the food that I have used for five (5) years and had normal slow growth, good joints, healthy skin and coat, and one (1) case of mild Pano. And that is without any additives of any kind. There are certainly other mass-produced foods available that are just as good, but I am relying on my experience here. Bob-O

Thanks for the help. I am using the raw diet made by "A Place for Paws" They too have been helpful. I use tripe mostly because he does so well on it. I have heard that you can feed kibble with the tripe but not at the same time. Eagle Pac is what my vet suggested. I have looked at the Royal Canin before and the fact that it is breed specific. He was fed raw when I got him and I choose to continue it. Some days I would like to put a bowl of kibble down and be done with it. I don't want to mess up his growth. He is 15 months old now and I have not had any problems to date. The vet says he is in great shape and his coat is beautiful. Again, thanks to all who took the time to answer my post.

gotta, have your dog a-stamped now. You can do that via WDA once your pup is one year. That will give you an idea where he is at right now, eleminate some worries, and you can also look at other things in the x-rays such as signs of Pano or bone density. I don't know how often you feed, I always recommend twice a day anyways throughout the dogs lif. You coujld do one feeding kibble and one feeding raw. As long as you do not mix it up it should be ok. The idea is not to mess with the kibble formula on the kibble side by adding anythings, and not mess with the positives of the raw approach, such as natural enzymes and other nutrients by not adding "dead" foods to that. If he is doing well on tripe (and you can deal with it), stick with it. I tried the raw a few years ago and must say I did not notice much of a difference to the Eagle, but yes, way more work. Not practical at all when travelling. I have also tried numerous different dog foods over the years and still try new ones when they look interesting, but I have to say that I always come back to the Eagle. And since I recommend it here so often, I see quite a following has developed. I guess the success speaks for itself :o). For me it really has been a one stop fits all with it over the years. I feed the small/medium breed puppy til 12-16 weeks, then switch to the Original Adult til at least a year and then see what works best. Even if a dog has some problems with the corn in it, I still see it as the lesser evil of the whole. I must also say that I have never really had much problems with the Eagle. No reactions, no allergies, skin and coat is always good, really good muscle tone, tight joints. The one thing that is noticable is that the dogs develop slower. Growth spurts at a year and a half are not uncommon. Royal Canin is a good food, but results can be mixed. More formulas are available in Germany than North America. We feed it at our training facility and some of our show trainers feed it too. More because the German Eagle distributer is a bit difficult to deal with at times...