SchH USA article - Page 1

I wanted to hear everyone's opinion on the article concerning the incident at the podium of the North American and FH Championships May 5-7, 2006. The article is on page 42 of the latest issue (July/August) The part I was most concerned about was "the protocol that will be developed from this situation" at the end. It seemed to me that the entire first part of the article went into depth explaining what happened and made numerous excuses/explainations for the handlers and the dogs. ie. "were in fairly close proximity", the dogs had a history of "bad blood", the judges were "convinced of a sound temperament in the dog as shown by the scores posted at the event", etc. etc. I thought the first part of the article was a fair assesment of the events, and thought the Judges did nothing wrong by leaving them with their placements. HOWEVER then reading the "protocol" in the event something happens like this again I was shocked. I thought it to be a harsh punishment [["immediately dismissed and the notation of DISMISSED/OUT OF CONTROL AGRESSION will be made into the scorebook".]] I don't think dog on dog aggression should be that harshly reprimanded, to strip the dog/handler of a title and/or placement??. There is absolutely NO assessment in any SchH event where a dog must pass a face to face greeting test with another dog. All dog on dog tests are done at a distance. Although my dog does not have problems with other dogs, I don't think it fair to expect two dogs in "close proximity" to always get along. Dogs will be dogs and I'm sure many people on this board have experienced dog fights with dogs of otherwise sound temperament. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I wasn't there to witness the incident in person, but by the way the article describes the event I think the "protocol" is very unfair. Yours in the sport, Melanie

I wasn't there either, and haven't yet read the article as my magazine hasn't come yet.... But your post raises the question - in a trial, checking in for obedience, if the dogs start 'acting up' (growling,and so on), what are the handlers allowed to do? I would assume that touching or correcting your dog might get you dismissed, but what is the best way to handle this within the rules? Obviously the best idea is a good, safe check in where the dogs aren't too close, if they are known to have issues with each other.

To answer the question about reporting in..... I personally keep a very sharp eye on not only my dogs' behaviour, but the person who is reporting in along side of me. If I have to I'll give myself a little bit of a "cushion" in that I'll be a bit wider, & make sure my body is more in between my animals' line of sight with the other dog if possible. This is very subtle also, & I do practice this at training from time to time. If you've done everything you could, & you still end up in a potentially bad situation, where say the dogs' are hackled up, or starting to hackle up, or doing a low growl, simply turn & heel your dog away before it becomes a big problem. Don't wait for the judge at this point, just do what's right for you & your dog. I can't imagine anyone giving you a hard time about your concern over your safety. In most cases the judge will give you & the other handler a chance to get better control of the situation, & enter the field again, after a short time. Nothing good can come to you or your dog if a fight starts. It's hard, but try to stay alert as well. Recently I saw a judge tell a handler to leash her dog repeatedly. The gal said she didn't have to that her dog was always safe. Within a split second, a dog fight started, the dog that was told to be leashed started the fight & the non aggressive dog that was also next to the judge was injured. Since then both of these dogs have had some training issues as well. Lastly if you've done everything you could, & your dog is actually in a fight, try to stay as calm & clear headed as possible. I know that's really hard, but everyones emotions will be going crazy. Don't put yourself in a position to get bit, but take charge, & make sure the other dog owner/handler or someone can get control of the other dog in some way, while you get a hold of yours. You might have to be the one to direct the action as well. I don't think there is any one way to split up a dog fight, but I've had some luck dragging the dogs away from one another by using their tails. DON'T GET BETWEEN TWO DOGS FIGHTING. I saw a lady try to do that, & we were all lucky the judge reacted quickly & got involved, grabbing one of the dogs himself.

I read the article and I am in agreement with Melanie that the protocol is more harsh than the "crime". I was not at the event where the incident took place. I personally think that the dogs should be on leash at check in until the judge directs them to begin. I believe this to be a safety issue. Why wait for an incident to happen. I also find it hard to believe this is the first incident on the podium for our breed. Kyle

It is not harsh at all. Schutzhund is about obedience and control. Either you have it, or you don't. I don't give a hoot about how close there are, or "bad history", or any other excuse. If you can't control your dog, then the dog should be dismissed.

<<>> Very true WARDOWG Schutzhund IS about Tracking/Obedience/Protection and Control. First of all I am not argueing that the incident did not take place or was not as mild or bad as people say it was. USA can implement any policy it wishes no matter how extreme, that's their choice. But an organization any organization that gets to a point of micro management will only see a decline in membership, so they need to be carefull how many policies they want to have in effect to appease the humaniacs/liberals/green party. I have voiced my opinion on this subject already many times and it is not the policy USA wants to enforce that gets me upset its the way they handled the situation that happened at the N.A. AFTER THE FACT, THE WAY THEY CARRIED OUT THE DISCIPLINE ON THE HANDLER WITHOUT DUE PROCESS. The way the organization decided that there was a problem from second hand info rather than leaving it alone and respecting the way it was handled by the Judges on the field at the time. They are the ones to say something to the handler AT THAT TIME, NOT the organization 10 days later. Goddamn I'm getting pissed off all over again. Care must be taken that decisions are not made in ANY DOG SPORT ORGANIZATION by people that have no understanding of canine behaviour, people that have not competed at National level with a very high caliber dog, or people that start changing everything in the organization and the sport to be POLITCALLY CORRECT. We see enough of that crap in Europe. Uwe Doose

When a judge tells you something you do it and not second guess it, especially concerning safety. Have not seen the article. But new protocols should only be implemented once voted on by the membership. The club is not in the position to just change things without the input of the membership, so make sure it goes to a vote. On the podium, people may let their attention slip. They are excited about their placement, do not pay that much attention to their dogs. Though clearly, they should. The event is not over yet... As long as the event is on a dog can be disqualified. No special new protocols needed for that one really, rules for that are already in place. Whether or not a dog is to be disqualified should be the judges decision at the time.

GSDfan wrote "There is absolutely NO assessment in any SchH event where a dog must pass a face to face greeting test with another dog. All dog on dog tests are done at a distance." I have seen "a few" dogs attempt to get their BH titles under different Judges. Every time we did the test they had antother dog very close by. When we did the phase where the group walks back and forth while the dog is tied up and the handler is out of site we had to have a dog on leash as we went by and we were ordered by the Judge to get pretty close. I do not know if this situation is common, if not, maybe it should be. I know it would not be a catch all, but it may identify some dogs with aggression issues. BTW wardawg I have to say I agree with you 100% Shawn

In the BH's I've seen the heeling past eachother is rather close, but I feel there is a big difference between heeling past one another and letting the dogs greet eachother. In the excersise where the dog was tied out, the other dog/handler didn't get closer than 8-10ft. What I meant was that there is no meet and greet, face to face evaluation like in the CGC or TDI. Yes the dogs must behave and heel past eachother but never are allowed to "meet". I was trying to say that since this kind of test is not incorporated, they should not come down so harshly on a dog that is not completely dog friendly. There is a big difference between heeling past another dog and being completely dog friendly. Obviously I wasn't at this incident so its impossible to know how close they allowed their dogs to get to eachother but the article states "the two handlers did not employ much "situational awareness" of what was around them, most notably eachother", but in any case all it takes is a careless handler to allow their dog to come up to yours. And if your dog reacts in an aggressive manner YOUR dog is dismissed AND be suspended from USA trials for up to a year!?! We are not talking about only during reporting to a judge, heeling past another dog, sitting next to another dog/handler team on the podium. The protocol states ANY time during the event, "any venues, training fields, tracking fields, HOTEL, etc." Thank you all for sharing your views, I still think the punishment is too harsh and the protocol is too vauge.

Dogs don't have to be dog friendly to be under control that close on the podium but as a handler you have to be very aware of what is going on, especially with the intact male next to you. Schutzhund is about control and like it or not, the impressions of the public do make a difference. These dogs are involved in bitework and must be under control at all times, reguardless of dog aggressive or people aggressive tendencies. The temperament test does not end off the field. It's amazing to me how many dogs can do beautiful obedience on the schutzhund field, yet would never be allowed off leash anywhere else. Talk about fake obedience.