Over Breeding - Page 3

I think you are from USA and I do not understand: have you got person like breeding director or bread leader who have obligation to monitor and control breed? Have you got Breeding Rule Book? In our Breeding Rule Book is precise determined that female can have litter twice per year. If she have more then eight puppies she must rest 6 months more or club will find "spare" female for overnumber puppies. Over number puppies goes with "spare" mother in period of 10 days after born. Breeding director must see and examine litter for firt time in first three days and after that he must visit litter minimum for three times. If you have bed environtement, female and/or puppies in poor condition, if you break any other rule explained in Breeding Rule Book you will be punished (warning, money, embargo on breeding and showing).

Amir, breeding is not regulated in the USA with the main registry, the AKC. As long as a dog meets minimum age requirements (8 months bitches, 7 months males, but that can be circumvented) and maximum age requirements (12 years, which can also be circumvented) and is AKC registered it can be bred at the owners discretion, or shall we say will. Some breeders form special breed clubs and formulate what is called a 'Code of Ethics', but it is voluntary, as such breed clubs do not have any say in the actual registration of any pups produced, and membership in such clubs is not required to be able to breed. All registration matters are handled by one single registry, the AKC (there are others but they are not FCI recognized). There is no obligation to screen for health, like HD, no requirements for working titles, no requirement to show a dog before breeding to see if it even meets basic breed standard, no limitations of how often a dog can be bred. No breed warden to inspect a litter after it is born, nor is a vet inspection required in lieu of a breed warden. The AKC may send out someone to inspect a kennel, but not every kennel. So, breeders are left to self-govern more or less. AKC quote: "There are no provisions in our rules to preclude the breeding of dogs of questionable quality. We would certainly hope, however, that if the matter is brought to the attention of the owners of the dogs involved, they would give the matter very careful consideration before contemplating breeding the dogs again."

Good article Dog1. Brittany, please do yourself a favor and READ, RESEARCH, and KEEP AN OPEN MIND. At this point you are still a super novice. You "think" you know all there is about training and are so opinionated, that it does little or no good to try to change your mind. I would sincerely request that you do your research on any given topic BEFORE you make your ridiculous and biased statements. As to the topic as stated here- OVERBREEDING...are you really in a position to believe you are more knowledgeable than the old school GERMAN breeders, and the SV? Or is it your goal to circumvent the "German Way" and create "Brittany Shepherds" in your self-imposed "limited breeding program"?

There are two tangents here - the health aspect and the ethical aspect. I too, have spoken to a, or possibly the same,e top repro vet who advocates breeding back to back to back - for about 3 or 4 litters only and then spaying! He also advised me that a healthy older bitch who has not had numerous litters can safely be bred. Here in the US, where there are over 40,000 GSDs individually registered [avg] per year with AKC, the breed is vastly overproduced in low quality BY, puppy mills and commercial breeders in every sub-group of type. Yes, there are many European line breeders who import females, breed them every heat until they do not conceive any longer, and try to place them. Often as is cited above, they get a litter or two, then sell on or lend or trade the dog to a different breeder for a litter, thus making the appearence that they do not breed every heat. When pups are always being pushed for sale, marketed heavily to novices and pet owners, no females kept back for the "program" and dozens of litters produced without any shown or titled, but new females added only to bred, it becomes obvious that the goal is merely to make a living not to breed for love of the breed. There are many high producing kennels, with high quality breeding dogs bought, a litter or two bred, and then replaced never to be heard of again. Where do all these puppies go???? You do not see these kennel names often in any show or trial results??????? Oerbreeding is done for money. Not for the breed.

Bravo Kougar well said. That was the point of this whole matter.

I agree with Kougar. How can any breeder find decent homes for so many puppies?

As I can see problem in USA is not in overbreeding. Problem is breed without determined rules. How can you breed without showing? What about having breed survey? Always you can breed for money or for quality. For quality you must have quantity and a lot of own money and you will be always in minus whatever you priced your pups. Or someone simply have luck in breeding. And breed is only one part of success. Another part is finding suitable persons for puppies specially for best quality pups. The best way in breeding GS is to breed on SV rules. GS Club in USA must control breeding of German Shepherd and that must become start point for all open questions and that club must be in coordination with SV in Germany. All other breeding is not breeding German Shepherd.

Amir - that is an entire subject to itself...Unfortuately, "purebred" dogs are an industry in the US - AKC makes big money in registrations and shows here, and unfortunately, the AKC is THE FCI registry in the US!!! The GSDCA has a different standard than the SV - which they consider superior to the SVs!!! The AKC has NO requirements for quality control or breeding criteria in ANY of the over 125 breeds for which they are the offical American registry. I absolutely agree with your thoughts, but the AKC - GSDCA will never embrace the SV standard or methodology of approving breeding stock. The WDA is as Mike R more politely called it "the red headed stepchild" of the GSDCA - and is IMO, a farce to present to the SV as their attempt to "bring the breed in line" while continuing to breed mix-master silly putty dogs for the AKC specialty ring!!! It is all about money. There is a very very small number [comparatively] of breeders in the US who do attempt to follow SV standards of titles and koers for breeding animals - I am in that minority. This problem is discussed often under different guises and headings on every discussion board... The object of **this** particular discussion was about the use of each individual brood bitch and the frequency or total number of times she should be bred. And of course, all discussions take on their own direction and tangents!

KÖNIGTUM I had a good very good time laughing at your posts. You do not know me and I do not know you. You come here claiming that I don’t know a damn thing about breeding and training, PLEASE! What do you think I’ve been doing all of this time? Do you think I piss away money on German shepherd books for no reason? I believe that it should be you breeders that should have an open mind… Do you know how silly and disgusting it is to have somebody, especially a breeder come here and say to the world that it’s ok to breed the hell out of your female? Rather then say “If you really don’t have a desire to breed (improving the breed) that it’s for the best to spay” To be open minded take a look at Kougar’s post.. maybe you can understand me more.

Oh Brittany, trust me - by now, we all *know* you. Far more than anyone really would like to. We all have had years of the same old thing to get to know you. Does it not make you wonder one teeny tiny little bit that people keep saying the same thing to you, and for years now? And so many different people, and they all share that same opinion? No? Nothing? Nada? If you want to be taken seriously start with spaying your bitch. You can still enjoy her and title her and be proud of her. But until you can show that you are not continually misguided in the same old fashion as you have been up to now, and ruled by your emotions and whatever popular flavor of the month opinion pops into your head, until then, noone will ever take you seriously. Though you want to be, so very much! For right now, all people see when they read your comments is that dog trying to figure out the invisible fence. Yet no matter how often it is shown how it works it keeps running right through the zapper boundry, and every single time ends up standing puzzled on the outside of the parimiter knowing it wants to be inside but not knowing how the heck to get back in there...