Catching/sleeving your own dog?

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by Ace952 on 23 February 2011 - 17:02

Does anyone here catch/sleeve/whatever u call it, your own dog?

I know there are some trainers who say that you should never put on a sleeve and work your dog as the dog will get confused.

Other trainers feel there is no problem with it at all as you should know how to work your dog one on one. Heck you may not have anyone clsoe by so you have no option.

Does it depend on if you are training PP or sport?
Does it plainly just depend on the dog (clear head)?

I was always told to never do it as it will confuse the dog and he will end up biting you.
I have though moved away from that train of thought. and I work my 7 month old on the sleeve. To me it gives us time to work together one on one. We do tug work, flirt pole and sleeve and we bond together doing that. I don't have any issues with him biting me or even looking like he is confused.

Your thoughts?.

by Don Corleone on 23 February 2011 - 17:02

Don't see a problem working a young dog in prey. Teaching to target, grip, etc.

by judron55 on 23 February 2011 - 17:02

I agree with Don....I start all my dogs...going from tug, bite pillow to sleeve before they ever see a helper!

by sueincc on 23 February 2011 - 17:02

Most people prepare their pup for the helper (bite pillow, rag stuff like that) but beyond that, you do need to know what you are doing, need to be able to read the most subtle clues and know exactly how not to ever to push your own dogs into defense which obviously results in creating great conflict and mistrust in the dog for his handler.

by Slamdunc on 23 February 2011 - 18:02

I'm with Ron and Sue. I have started my own dogs and will occasionally take bite on a sleeve or suit from my own dog. I will do it to work on targeting or grip. I have found that my digs do not bite me the same way they work on a decoy. I work them entirely in prey and never in defense. This is rare as they mature and often just for fun. My current dog comes very fast, so it is just fun catching a dog of his quality. I wouldn't recommend it for novice handlers or inexperienced decoys. Or with any dogs that have issues with their handler or any handlers that do not have a strong bond with the dog. Who told Don we were here? Jim

by SportySchGuy on 23 February 2011 - 18:02

I advise against it for PP. Having said that I do have one older dog that I let take a bite on me every now and then. He wont do it if someone else is near though so I have to be careful in that regard. As long as we are alone he will do it and he knows we are just screwing around. I have another that I would never do it with and still another that wont do it on me anyway. Every dog is an individual.

by raymond on 23 February 2011 - 18:02

never do bite work with your own dog! I have heard this from so many trainers and helpers ! foundation work with tugs,pillows. rags,ect,ect is fine! Let the experienced helper work your dog on the sleeve! I said an EXPERIENCED HELPER AND NOT JUST A SLEEVE ON AN ARM! to many times I have experienced people of good intent putting on a sleeve and confusing a dog so much that the experienced helper must start from the beginnig and teach the dog to unlearn what it has learned!

by Mindhunt on 23 February 2011 - 18:02

I'm going to start this out with NOT BASHING OR TRYING TO SHOW DISRESPECT TO ANYONE ELSE'S TRAINING METHOD!!!

Ok now that I have made that clear (I hope):

My trainers told me to never let my dog bite a sleeve or suit that I was wearing. They said a dog is NEVER supposed to bite their own handler for any reason whether play or training. They felt that letting your dog bite you while training was setting the stage for later issues (e.g. giving the aus/out command, or any other commands, while your dog is on your sleeve, will you be 100% sure your dog will not hesitate or obey the bad guy when the dog is biting him?). They were big on never setting the dog up to fail during training until the dog's confidence and reliability were top notch, and then it was a pseudo-fail only to teach the dog to think it's way through different scenerios if things didn't always go as trained - train as you work, work as you train - and then make sure to end on a high note.

That said, they did believe that playing with your dog and tugs was great for bonding and confidence building. You can teach your dog proper grip on a tug, but bite work is a very special and exacting skill that should only be taught by experienced decoys/trainers (I've seen dogs that got poor or incorrect bite training and it was not pretty). It takes less time and energy to train correctly from the beginning than fix later mistakes.

Just my 2 cents and probably worth about that

by MAINLYMAX on 23 February 2011 - 19:02

This is a good idea of beginning a puppy....I have used it before with
good reason, it would be, I think the Ideal way to start a puppy. The
NVBK dogs start very early and bite only the future helpers or decoys.

Start the dog working aginst the helper or decoy you will be using in
the future. handler rewards, while the helper introduces the sleeve or suit
to the puppy. You also learn alot about what the dog needs.
This is Monkey Contes de Hoffmann....He has alot of NVBK bloodlines,
to give you an idea of what they breed..They are a little bigger dog than
most Malinois and are known for very good grips. The video is very good
for GSD owners wanting to start their puppies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROAzMh9AB5Y

by desert dog on 23 February 2011 - 20:02

I have taken to many bites from dogs in a good mood just wanting to play. They are not serious bites but all it takes is a look , and in a heartbeat it can be. Doesnt matter if there is a sleeve or not. They don't do it from being mean dogs, they do it because they love to bite. Thats why I don't take bites from my dogs any more even in offence
Hank

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