Starting Raw - Page 1

Okay honestly i have googled and searched and read and still do not know where to begin.

I have 2 adults gsd's right now and a 10 week old puppy intended for Sar coming on March 11th. My adults have been on Orijen fish blends up until a week ago and then i switched them to Now as i didnt want the pup on such high protein. Well in this week i have seen my males coat go to crap and loose enough weight that i can notice it.So apparently the NOW isn't going to work.

I have alays wanted to make the leap to raw but thought i couldnt afford to do so untill i really took a good look at cheaper cuts of meat. I can get fairly cheap chicken as well as steak. Fish on a weekly bases is okay as well.

Now i guess i am confused where some say grains and i dont believe in grains. So what else do i put in there to ensure they are getting what they need?

Any suggestions appreciated to fix the confusion:)

Yes, at first the raw feeding seems over whelming.  but to try to simplify things for you;  just start with one type protein;  if you have adult GSD's the chicken quarters (legs & thighs attached) are one meal by themselves.  If you have a hard keeper, or a dog that does not keep the weight very easily you might need 2 small chicken quarters but you probably should feed twice per day.  Keep them on the one type of meat for a week, if all is OK with them and they can handle the raw chicken (including RAW bones) and the stool is good (you will get less stool) then you can move on to another type meat.  So say then in the AM feeding you could try raw beef with bones, that is whatever you can find in the way of beef and the chicken leg quarters at PM feeding.  If all goes well adding the beef to the menu for a week;  then you can add fish or pork neck bones in AM and again chicken quarters PM feeding.  Or whatever works for you.  Just keep watch on them when starting or anyhtime actually with the bones and make sure they can handle everything OK.  I never leave my guys when eating bones, ever and NEVER, NEVER feed cooked bones.

As a variety, and start slowly. add an egg raw shell and all a couple times per week;  and add a couple of tablespoons of PLAIN yogart everyday;  I also occasionally use Kefir instead of yogart, but for the most part i use yogart. every AM. 

As they handle each new addition to the diet OK, good stool, bright eyes, good energy, you can add another meat;  rabbit, deer, elk, venison,goat, anything that is available to you.  When you use fish I do not give fish raw,  I  poach it.  and never give Salmon raw.  Always poach or cook salmon.  some other fish are OK raw but for safety, I poach.  You can also add some vegetables if you want, I like to grind mine or puree them. add some type ground meat and use that as a meal also.  You can add an egg if you want of course raw with shell and yogart;  you can also add cottage cheese.  However, anytime you add something new only start with a small amount then you can increase if need be.  Depending on how much exercise and your dogs metabolism;  you can start with l l/2 pounds of meat per day or  l l/2 - 2 % of your dogs body weight.  Believe me they pick up weight fast on the raw diet so watch and adjust accordingly.  If you can check their weights weekly when you start.  Coats should improve noticeably within a few weeks.

A good puppy menu is on VonLotta GSD;  and good reading on Leerburg and Jane Anderson's PWD's site.  Best of Luck  and if I think of anything else, I will post again.  Nan

Wouldn't feed that much beef.

Thanks so much Nan for the info. It really is hard to start. I guess i am afraid they wont get what they need r to much of something. BUt your way of weaning them on sounds great.
I will check out the sites you listed for puppys as that was my other concern. and as she is coming to Canada from the U.S she in on a kibble i cant get here so she is going to have to go cold turkey i guess.

Should i expect issues from doing that to her?

Don why not alot of beef? To high in protein? So just basically stick to chicken and occasional beef and fish or?

 Here is an excellent article to get you started:
http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjhomemade2.html

Good morning,I  just want to say that for a puppy,you are better off keeping it on a Large Breed Puppy food until AT LEAST 6 months old.I was actually told this from 1 of only few in North America,Veterinary Board Certified Nutritionist(www.petdiets.com).I offered to pay for her to formulate a PROPER balanced and complete diet and she went out of her way to try to make me understand the importance of the puppy diet being ACCURATE.Yes ,she could of took my money and not tell me anything but she did'nt.Perhaps you could find a decent LB puppy food for now and then switch the puppy to what ever you want later on when you know it is safe and there are no hip issues,no panno etc.I am all for raw IF done right but that seems to be the problem for me right now.I have fed the store bought raw for a couple months but it got REAL EXPENSIVE for 2 GSD's and im not quite comfortable with just handing them the RMB's with no account given to balance(calcium-phos ratios including meat source,copper to zinc ratios,iron,salts,minerals etc).There are sources for info on balancing a raw diet but you would have to get either the book(k9-kitchen)OR join there discussion group.Apperently both her books(this monica siegal)have values for certain rmb's and stuff like spread sheets etc.I could'nt figure it all out and lost my patience and totally gave up on it.For me its easier for a BCV Nutritionist to formulate a proper diet that wont leave me wondering if i've covered all my basis.Sometimes it gets hard to formulate these diets with the bone in cause there is not alot of info since we humans DONT eat items such as bones.Anyway,I am only suggesting this cause I dont want to see your new pup hurt in any way.Good luck with your new pup.Domenic

This is what I feed my dogs, not everything at once, not the same exact ingredients all the time, the only new thing I began is the Solid Gold Sea Meal, cause I was adding all those ingredients separate and it was a lot of work for ten dogs, it was taking me an hour to prepare & feed everyone, now I just add 3/4 teaspoon to the mix.

I was feeding some kibble, but am no longer.

I am feeding everyone about 2 cups of raw goat milk at least 5 days out of the week, and I am noticing thicker coats and a beautiful shine to them.

Good luck with raw feeding, and don't worry about not balancing it perfect, you will get the hang of it, and as with humans, eating live fruits, veggies, and real meat, poultry,or fish is way better than processed canned or dry foods!

http://www.vonryansgermanshepherds.com/whatmydogseat.htm 


              Paula

Thank you for all the info i appreciate it.

One more thought i had. For the puppy i have read that it is an issue to try and keep the levels up so they are neither calcium deficient or over there reccomended calcium intake.

Am i able to feed a pup a high quality kibble in the morning and raw in the evening? Or is that to hard on her sysytem?

Everyone I know has their opinion on what to feed their dogs as well as what causes hair loss etc. But I have used the same thing in our dogs food for years and have never has an issue with hair loss alergies or anything else for that matter. Every dog we ever had has live to 12 plus years. My wife even had an old hushy that was an iditarode veteran that she used for ski joring that lived to 13 years of age which is really amazing. Basically I have use Eukanuba large dog formula for as long as I can remember. I only keep a puppy on the puppy formula for about a month from 8 to 12 weeks then I switch them to the adult food. I increase that to an extra half meal during the day. I do this so I can slow down the growth rate which is one of the things you get with the high energy puppy formulas. Fast growth is in my opinion a primary cause of hip and elbow problems in large breed dogs right along with genetics. But I add other things to the food as well. I give them raw fresh veetables ( mixed ), a spoon of cottage cheese, and cod liver tablets, and a dose of esterC in every meal. It helps the coat, slows down the bone growth yet keeps them healthy until such time as they have matured and the bones have developed. It also makes it easier as your not haveing to keep more then one type of food handy. Being from Alaska raw meat diets are easy to supply but I prefer the other for our dogs.

For the puppy raw venue I would read Von Lotta's site;  it is really thorough and has obviously been tested.  There is really no reason why you cannot feed puppies some kibble and some raw, at different times during the day and night.  Small amounts of course.  Sometimes it is about convenience to the owner.  While growing I believe the important thing is do not overfeed.

Also if you are on total raw meat diet, no supplements added your protein levels are between 17/20%.

That is a good rate for growth and I would add eggs, yogart, cottage cheese to a puppy diet everyday.  You will see what I am talking about on Von Lotta's site.

For adults raw is about vigor and good health and to get that you do not have to feed the same every day;  as long as you watch your dogs and like what you see in coat, weight, energy and bright eyes, you can achieve raw feeding with variety.  Does not have to be consistently the same every day;  in fact variety is key to success in raw feeding.  I know it's scarey but give them a raw chicken quarter tonight and sit back and watch.  They will be very content and happy dogs.  Best of luck  Nan

I sent you a pm.