Fixing Fear Aggression: Thoughts, Techniques, and Resources Please - Page 1

Hey All!

The title of this topic is pretty self-explanatory and an area of dog psychology and training that I have very little knowledge of.  Aside from the least helpful suggestion I can think of, which would be to get a different dog, what can be done to help somebody with a dog who has this temperamental type?  Any external resources would be appreciated as well, be they books, articles, or websites.

A specific question to start this off that I have is whether or not strong corrections have a place in a rehabilitative strategy to help a dog get "fixed"?

This is a very common problem and I bet a lot of you have some good knowledge and experience to share.

SteveO

Strong corrections do not address fear issues first and foremost. Set ups and socializing, de-sensitizing, all helpful, but a fearful dog will always be fearful in my opinion. It could simply be genetic, but it could also have been the result of something the dog experienced early on and I have found that a dog never forgets a bad experience. I think you can do a lot but I don't think you can cure some dogs of being fearful. I do believe you can control the aggression, but you still have the possibility of a problem and a lack of trust.

Steve,
Is this your dog, someone else's or are we talking hypothetical?
The topic title is pretty self explanatory but more detail is still needed. I'd like to see Yoshy weigh in on this thread. I'm sure he could give some insight much better than I can.

Fear aggression is grossly overrated IMHO kind of like ADDHD in kids. It's become a catch all for improper handling, poor socialization and learned bratty behavior.

Learned fear with aggression in specific instances can be improved and managed. The dog can learn to deal with the stress that causes fear through careful, proper socialization and training. As examples, a dog can become fear aggressive toward other dogs if it is bullied as a pup. A poorly socialized dog that is fearful can be socialized to an extent. Some things like that can be worked with and greatly improved in an otherwise sound dog but it must be kept in mind that the dog is genetically wired that way to a degree.

True fear with aggression caused by genetically poor/weak nerves will not be significantly improved. Pushed from their comfort zone, they can be very dangerous. Sharp/shy pups that never get better as they get older. Dogs like this are generally 'basket cases" who have learned from experience that when avoidance fails, biting works and what ever is scaring them will go away. The fear will remain but the dog may become manageable in certain situations and can learn better ways to deal with the fear.

In some cases and situations, strong corrections can have their place in a rehab strategy. Done wrong and it makes a bad situation worse. But be aware, you can not "fix" a dog like this. You can control, manage and improve but if pushed beyond the limits of tolerance to stress, the dog may quickly revert back.

Hey Mo B Jack!

No this is not my dog, although the first German Shepherd that I got in 1975 was very much fearful and very much aggressive.  I wound up re-homing her, which still bothers me after all of these years, so I do have a personal stake in the subject.  I guess I'm wondering what I might have or 'coulda, woulda, shoulda' done differently.

This subject came up in Ruger1's thread  "I Need Help", although I am not making a determination that her dog's behaviour is fear-aggression.  I'm not qualified to make that determination, least of all via the internet.  My own experience with my girl pretty much qualified her as a "basket-case" and really does not sound like the temperamental type of Prince.  Recalling my own experience and knowing that it is not an uncommon problem, I wondered in a broad way (hypothetical) how someone might deal with a shy-sharp dog to best manage some of the risks involved and provide a good quality of life for the dog.

I think that, as you point out, making a correct determination of whether or not you are dealing with a truly "shy-sharp" or "fear aggressive dog" would be the best place to start.  And that, as well as Moon's thoughts, are the kind of input I was hoping this topic might generate


SteveO

I believe a GSD should be and show suspicion but not fear. I've had dogs like this that can be very leary yet do not show real fear. The aggression is all together a different problem as far as I'm concerned. They should be delt with separately these two problems, they require different strategies.

Moons and Mobjack make excellent points and are excellent posts.

I would analyze the dog and see what the cause of the fear aggression is.  Then I would work on socializing the dog and conditioning it to what ever stimulus causes the anxiety.  I would not tolerate the aggression but work towards building self confidence in the dog. 

Jim

Fear aggression is usually a lot of building trust in the dog, confidence in the dog, desensitization and a shitton of management.

Pinpointing whether its genetic or aquired is useful, particularly when it comes to desensitizing.

A genetically fearful dog will always be a PITA to desensitize because usually around the time you get them responding decently to one set of stimuli, they decide something new [and completely innocous] is terrifying to them.

A dog with aquired fear is a lot easier to deal with.  Typically only one set of stimuli triggers their fear-based aggression, and they can be worked through that.  In a case like that, its not too dissimilar from the way human trauma survivors become desensitized to their triggers.  You start at a level that doesn't quite trigger the fear response, and begin building positive asociations.

For example, if you have a dog that was attacked by another dog, and has become fear agressive towards other dogs, you'd find out what distance from another dog sets the reaction off.
Then you'd begin taking the dog just outside that distance [about the range that it *notices* the dog, and perhaps stiffens, but doesn't completely lose its shit], and being playing tug, doing really upbeat, happy training with the dog.

Slowly you work on decreasing the distance.

Solid obedience is also a must, although the obedience work should ideally be done away from the negative stimuli, so that obedience doesn't develop a negative connotation in the dog's mind.

Over time, the goal is to remove the negative association with the stimuli, coupled with creating enough trust in the dog that it doesn't fear another incident.

This is not too dissimilar to what is done with a genetically fearful dog, but trying to figure out which situations trigger the fear, is the hard part.  You might think the dog is scared of people, when in reality, the dog is scared of people wearing hats.  If you do all of your desensitization work with people *not* wearing hats, and suddenly the dog encounters person wearing hat and explodes, it can be confusing, and disheartening, to say the least.

And of course, the old adage of "A tired dog is a good dog" definitely applies.
Even if you have to invest in a treadmill, fearful dogs need ample exercise.

This is a great topic but I'll have to hit it up tomorrow. Worked with LOTS of fear aggressive dogs.

Steve, coulda, shoulda, woulda won't change anything. If the dog got a good home and you did what was right for the dog, then you did good. Don't beat yourself up over it. If the dog was "a basketcase" from your observations, then there's very little you could have done to change it. A born coward is always going to be that way. He may stand and fight if he absolutely has to but he'd still be pissing himself while doing it.

Moons is right, fear and aggression are two different things and must be treated differently. Aggression as a result of fear can be tricky to handle but should not ever be tolerated. Once a dog places that card on the table, in my experience, it never comes off. That option is always in the dog's mind from that point on. Remove the fear and the aggression never rears its head. Cause and effect.

Learn the dog, its fears, stresses and triggers. Slip proof collars and strong equipment are a must. Condition the dog to a muzzle and use it if you think there's even a chance the dog could panic and bite.

A basketcase dog does better if never pushed to the point of acting aggressively. Best analogy I can come up with is a severely phobic person confronted with their fear. Some will freeze, some all out panic. Either way, the mind is not there until the fear goes away. Not fun when a panicking dog does whatever it can to get the hell out of there because avoidance is no longer an option. Your "learned fear" dog work with as Jim and Moons said. Figure out why the dog is afraid and go from there. Don't expect quick progress or miracles. Expect some regression but over the long haul you should be able to mark improvement. These dogs are very dependent on the person they trust. It is vital not to break that, you have to build on it. Once the dog begins to trust you to "protect" them, improvement follows. You need a nonchalant attitude. If you get keyed up or tense, so does the dog. Good consistent obedience training is very helpful. It gives the dog something else to think about and keeps the dog's focus on you not its fear trigger. Never, ever inadvertently reward fearful behavior. Ignore the dog or simply quietly remove it. Again, your attitude must be no big deal.

mobjack,