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by tarekallam on 30 August 2010 - 19:08
Litter mates (same dam & sire puppies) do not have the same specifications.
One & / or more puppies have better specifications / quality than others despite having the same parents.
Also if the mating between parents is repeated due the high quality of puppies of the first litter, the possibility of having the same good quality of puppies in the second litter is not necessarily.
One & / or more puppies have better specifications / quality than others despite having the same parents.
Also if the mating between parents is repeated due the high quality of puppies of the first litter, the possibility of having the same good quality of puppies in the second litter is not necessarily.
by bobby999 on 30 August 2010 - 19:08
Ah the gene pool.. thats what it is I think. Game of probability. Guess we cannot make dogs. Its mother nature. Human siblings differ from each other and are not exact same type. I guess someone with a higher intelligence could answer it well but I thought it was worth giving a shot.

by aceofspades on 30 August 2010 - 20:08
Like any breeding, including human, you are rolling the genetic dice. For instance in a human there are 23 chromosome pairs. Then you match that to a memeber of the opposite sex and you have more possible combinations than possible number of offspring.
How come when the same two humans breed multiple times the do not have offspring of the same quality?
Use google to do a search on genetics and it is all pretty logical. Why WOULD you end up with identical proginy in a litter or subsequent litters? When humans carry multiple children at one time they are either identical (where one fertilized egg splits into two babies) or fraternal (where the mother had two eggs that fertilized and implanted.
Change your question to substitute the word human for dog, and it seems like a silly question, and one that is easily answered just by grade 9 biology.
I'm sure that dogs occasionally have identical twins, but would you ever know? Unless you kept the entire litter or had testing done on every puppy, you would likely never know.
How come when the same two humans breed multiple times the do not have offspring of the same quality?
Use google to do a search on genetics and it is all pretty logical. Why WOULD you end up with identical proginy in a litter or subsequent litters? When humans carry multiple children at one time they are either identical (where one fertilized egg splits into two babies) or fraternal (where the mother had two eggs that fertilized and implanted.
Change your question to substitute the word human for dog, and it seems like a silly question, and one that is easily answered just by grade 9 biology.
I'm sure that dogs occasionally have identical twins, but would you ever know? Unless you kept the entire litter or had testing done on every puppy, you would likely never know.
by tarekallam on 30 August 2010 - 20:08
Very good answer, however still for example if you & your brother stood amongst a group of 10 different persons I still can very easily tell you WHO is your brother, from the features, the anatomy etc...
I am asking this question which may seem silly or stupid to you because I had an excellent Xaro son with excellent colors, anatomy & head which passed at 11 months old. I did buy his litter mate who when they were puppies was of better quality than the one that passed away, however he is not anymore now.
I am a bit confused. A friend of mine who is experienced in GSDs told me that GSDs changed immensely till they reach at least 18 months.
I am asking this question which may seem silly or stupid to you because I had an excellent Xaro son with excellent colors, anatomy & head which passed at 11 months old. I did buy his litter mate who when they were puppies was of better quality than the one that passed away, however he is not anymore now.
I am a bit confused. A friend of mine who is experienced in GSDs told me that GSDs changed immensely till they reach at least 18 months.

by Prager on 30 August 2010 - 20:08
Ha ha ha!!! I am Not laughing at you. I am just laughing at the complexity of the answer to your question.
You can start here. And after few years of study you may start to understand:
http://www.hobart.k12.in.us/jkousen/Biology/mendel.htm
Good luck.
But even so the knowledge of theory is important,...more important is the practical knowledge. Like if I do this then I get that. Why? Who cares why, as long as you know what you will get if you do this or that.
Learn practical implications and do not worry too much about the theory.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
You can start here. And after few years of study you may start to understand:
http://www.hobart.k12.in.us/jkousen/Biology/mendel.htm
Good luck.
But even so the knowledge of theory is important,...more important is the practical knowledge. Like if I do this then I get that. Why? Who cares why, as long as you know what you will get if you do this or that.
Learn practical implications and do not worry too much about the theory.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
by tarekallam on 30 August 2010 - 20:08
So you as a professional breeder cannot guarantee that if you breed a top male to a top female you will get a tip top litter.
Is it at the end of the day is totally a matter of luck?
Is it at the end of the day is totally a matter of luck?

by Two Moons on 30 August 2010 - 20:08
Not luck,
also not predictable.
Maybe in terms of odds, percentages.
also not predictable.
Maybe in terms of odds, percentages.
by tarekallam on 30 August 2010 - 20:08
Moons- I have seen your 6 months old puppies, they are great ones.
What is the percentage of getting the same good quality if you repeat breeding the same parents?
What is the percentage of getting the same good quality if you repeat breeding the same parents?
by tarekallam on 30 August 2010 - 21:08
For example this massive male namely
Cimi vom Fichtenschlag is a Quenn Loher Weg son. I have heard that the parents of this massive dog were bred more than once however never such a male was produced.
Cimi vom Fichtenschlag is a Quenn Loher Weg son. I have heard that the parents of this massive dog were bred more than once however never such a male was produced.

by apoArmani on 30 August 2010 - 21:08
There is no specific answer to your question; since if all the breeders had the answer to that "why" then the whole 'breeding' story would be as simple as baking a cake using grandmas recepy!
Having said that it is also interesting for you to note, that many breeders in Germany (and I would assume worldwide) have repeated VA and Sieger producing dogs/bitches but the results of the repeat matings have not had the 'spot-light' that the their full brothers/sisters had in previous litters. Although they were of very high quality!!
And this is due to the fact (as earlier pointed out) the genes did not quite fall into the same formation or in the intensity for one of the born. This though does not mean that the off-spring of the repeated matings are of lesser quality actualy. Phenotipicaly they may well be lacking to their VA brother/sisters, but genetically they will still be in the position to breed on as their more succesfull relatives...and thats thanks to the breeders who had the initiative to bring those two gene-pools together.
That is breeding and knowing as much as possible about the two 'families' you are bringing together.
Having said that it is also interesting for you to note, that many breeders in Germany (and I would assume worldwide) have repeated VA and Sieger producing dogs/bitches but the results of the repeat matings have not had the 'spot-light' that the their full brothers/sisters had in previous litters. Although they were of very high quality!!
And this is due to the fact (as earlier pointed out) the genes did not quite fall into the same formation or in the intensity for one of the born. This though does not mean that the off-spring of the repeated matings are of lesser quality actualy. Phenotipicaly they may well be lacking to their VA brother/sisters, but genetically they will still be in the position to breed on as their more succesfull relatives...and thats thanks to the breeders who had the initiative to bring those two gene-pools together.
That is breeding and knowing as much as possible about the two 'families' you are bringing together.
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