TREATS...???? - Page 1

Oppps......give me a minute I accidentally hit the send button .......                           
                                                        

                         I was reading over some of the old threads about using treats for training.  I just started a new training class at a  Schutzhund club on Monday. I have been training somewhere else up until now and using treats has always been encouraged especially for the younger pups or less skilled pups.. The new trainer wants to see less treating and giving treats for only 'perfect behavior"...I was a bit surprised because Prince is only 7 months old and is being handled by a very inexperienced handler...lol me.....I can not imagine cutting back on treats at this time I have a hard time keeping him focused as it is.............Any thoughts..???

                                                                                                     Ruger1

Treats are good with a young puppy or a new, inexpereinced dog. The idea being that food is calming reward, and the exercise can be trained and rewarded in "lower drive" to hopefully teach the exercise in a clear, concise manner without CONFLICT or COMPULSION. Once this is successfully accomplished, I like to build drive with a toy and then perform heeling, a motion exercise, etc... And at this time, when my dog is in a "higher drive", compulsion (a correction) is not such a big deal because the dog is in "higher drive". Personally, I feel that food is good in the beginning (but not always necessary), but there must come a time to slowly offer less food as a reward and introduce the toy. The toy, be it a jute or ball, kicks the dog's prey drive up and makes for a much prettier, energetic picture IF the dog is correct.

The only two things I would add are that, one, obviously, your dog needs to have some inherent prey drive... Yes, you can build drive, but the dog must have some prey in him/her to eventually want to work for that toy. And two, don't jump around training clubs too much. If necessary, observe several places, see which people are having success with their dogs, what methods they use, do you as a person fit in with them, and then commit to a club or training facility.

                  Papas....thanks for the post...Yes,I have noticed with Prince that he works better with a ball for motivation. I have not used the ball at training class as there is not the time to be throwing it around between exercises. At home I was afraid that Prince viewed  training time as play time with the use of the ball. After one class with the new trainer I think that the motivation is more correction based not motivational with treats and all the happy..happy ..happy....????????????????

                                                                                         Ruger1

"At home I was afraid that Prince viewed training time as play time with the use of the ball."

What's wrong with that?

"there is not the time to be throwing it around between exercises."

Hey Ruger,

    If you have a ball on a rope, you don't need to throw it to China everytime you want to make a reward. Building toy drive, especially with a ball on a rope, does not require it to be thrown... You barely even have to move! Just stand in a small area, and make "misses" for your dog... You can accomplish this by simply taking little baby steps and turning in a tight circle. Also, if you make these misses in a clockwise direction, you can practically tuck the ball under your arm or wherever, and take your dog right into a heeling pattern. The important thing is to make your dog "miss", and a good miss results in teeth clacking. Just don't have your dog pointlessly chase the ball around. It is the "misses" that build drive (frustration), not an endless game of "chase this object you never get". Also, you don't need to give the ball evertime... You can reward with the dog with this game of building drive... Get it? Occasionally, your dog must get the ball, because otherwise they learn quickly that this is a game they never win, and that is not good. Also, throwing the ball a considerable distance too often exhausts the dog and takes away from the actual training.

To some extent I agree with the trainer, but not entirely. Seven months is old enough to teach a dog to work less food but it depends on what your goals are for the dog and hwo much training he already has. I like to mix up reward, sometimes just praise, sometimes food, a LOT of times a toy (yes, get that ball on a rope!). In a very young dog or learning dog the behavior needs not be 100% flawless, I just want to see the dog thinking hard and trying hard, to me that merits encouragement. Once the dog has shown me that it understands how to be perfect, only then do I withhold the reward and wait for perfection.

Do not worry about your dog not taking training seriously because he gets to play. If he loves to play, he will take his work MORE seriously because he WANTS that play reward. And if a trainer disapproves of that, get a new trainer!

Keith.......I don't know.....I thought I should keep it separate....??? ......my bad...

Papas.....I see.....I will get a ball on a rope ASAP.....

                        YIKES...I have a lot to learn......poor Prince...  Ruger1
             

KCzaja........I think that Prince is thinking hard and trying hard....at least I would rather give him the benefit of the doubt....when he shows me this effort I like to treat or as many here suggest ...PLAY.....I
want training to be fun for us..... On the other hand I do not want to hold back progress in our training being too soft.....Thanks for the post.....

                                                                        Ruger1

"Keith.......I don't know.....I thought I should keep it separate....??? ......my bad..."

No need to, really; keep training fun and he'll always look forward to the next session.

"Papas.....I see.....I will get a ball on a rope ASAP....."

Get at least two; you'll thank me later when you can't find one of them.  I'm using the medium solid Frabo balls: www.hallmarkk9.com/Balls_on_Rope.aspx  Axel is nuts about them.

"YIKES...I have a lot to learn......poor Prince... "

He'll be fine...