Grips and Nerves - Page 1

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Genetic

Anyone who says "trainable" should get a GRIP, you're getting on my NERVE.

Are you saying good grips can't be trained?

Ha ha.  "Improved" a little maybe?

Jim, I think grips can be improved and F'd up.

To an extent, Jim and I agree that they can be improved or horribly f-up but I think that if you have to 'train' grips that you can run into a problem if the dog is faced with a situation beyond his training and falls back on what he(she) is predisposed towards.

Otherwise, we could all just select based on color and conformation, and have equally awesome dogs!  Sure would make things easier.

Fh, I was just going to say the same thing. When faced with pressure some dogs revert back to square one.

Although I agree grips are genetic, they can be improved or ruined depending on the training.  And with good training a LOT can be hidden.  I've met multiple dogs now who were trained to have good grips, and work through the pressure of high level (III) titles, through the very talented use of an ecollar.  By different trainers.  If put under enough pressure the dogs would show their natural tendencies, but ...  I think both dogs did have naturally good grips, maybe not great, but good, the collar was used to improve the gripping behavior, and also "encourage" the dog to maintain that behavior even under stress.

Really, if you can teach a forced retrieve and hold with an ecollar, why couldn't you teach a "force bite".  I'm not debating the ethics, just the possibility.  And it is possible.

IMO you have to look at more then just gripping style when looking at nerves, I've met many dogs over the years who had full/calm grips, right up until they let go and ran (their body language told the story their grips didn't), and others who bit 3/4 but wouldn't come off regardless of the pressure, and their body language said they were quite happy to be there in that fight.