Temperament, lack of training, or.... - Page 1

something else? Dominance? Intact male aggression towards other intact males. The Sieger Show thread has me thinking. My dog is very nice and safe around all children and dogs. Except other intact males. He can spot them from a mile away, or pick them out of a line-up of a hundred dogs. Nothing has happened for me to say that he is unsafe, but I don't allow him to be loose w/intact males either. I can call him off a cat, rabbit, etc. However, I have to physically remove him if he is fence fighting, or we are out walking (on leash) and come across another intact male. He doesn't come at me what so ever, but doesn't turn off until removed from the situation completely. Neutered males? He's rolling around on his back pawing at their face.

Dog-aggression can certainly be genetic, just like any aggression is genetic.  Look at your dogs lines.  The increased levels of endogenous testosterone can easily be smelled by your dog, that's why he can pick them out so qickly.  Neutered males are seen almost as a third gender to dogs- they are not fully male, but they are not female.  And they do not represent a threat to your particular dog.  I think it's often a competition thing.  Then once they get into a fight at some point in their life it becomes worse and they have more charged interactions.  I think it's stressful for them to be around other males, too, even if they are separated but in the same housing you may see things like increased anxiety, pacing, more marking even inappropriately in the house, etc

Even if your dog IS fine with other dogs, if he is in-tact, it will change how he is percieved by other dogs, and he could still be the target of aggression, so theoretically neutering a dog can help them socially.  Neutering a dog before puberty can help decrease intermale aggression to some degree, but that's not to say all neutered males are dog-friendly, neutering is not a guarantee.

You could address this through training.  If someone gets a puppy it's part of the reason to socialize early and not allow any displays of aggression throughout their life.  You could set a goal for your dog- that he will do work in close proximity to other in-tact males and will not show aggression, that aggression will be corrected.  Starting with obedience around them, then he can do "over and under" other in-tact males.  That is, another male will be at a down stay and your dog will jump over his back, then your dog will be at a down-stay and another male will jump over his back.  These exercises are started by conditioning your dog to wearing a muzzle as a part of everyday training equipment, he has to wear it for safety, and the other male used would have to be safe and non-reactive, should be done with a trainer.

So...I'm led to believe that a number of dogs in trials/shows could be this way if not properly trained or socialized. Is this a correct assumption? Not trying to stir up stuff about who is a poor trainer/doesn't socialize their dogs, or what lines are preponents of what. I have your basic showline. 3-3 Ursus, and 5-4 Karly A. Just wondering if this is a fairly normal/common behavior....if left unchecked I suppose?

I don't know what's in the GSD standard.  But in Doberman DPCA shows the dog aggression is actually written into the breed standard as acceptable and not to be faulted.  From the standard "An aggressive or belligerent attitude towards other dogs shall not be deemed viciousness."

I think that's garbage and a poor excuse for someone with a show dog that isn't trained.  If a dog cannot behaved WITH their owner/handler, especially on leash, it's bad training and lack of basic control/respect.  I'm not saying you should be able to throw your dog loose into a pen full of dogs or allow males to jump onto them, but you sure as heck should be able to control them on a leash and passing in close quarters with other dogs without displays of aggression.

"I think that's garbage and a poor excuse for someone with a show dog that isn't trained. If a dog cannot behaved WITH their owner/handler, especially on leash, it's bad training and lack of basic control/respect. I'm not saying you should be able to throw your dog loose into a pen full of dogs or allow males to jump onto them, but you sure as heck should be able to control them on a leash and passing in close quarters with other dogs without displays of aggression"


easy there tonto....my dog is of showlines, but just a family dog, and purchased solely for that reason. he wasn't purchased to be shown or bred. he is always under control, and very well behaved....except for the little hang up with balls. i've been able to easily handle him in any situation that's come up, and they've been few and far between. the only real "bad" instance i've had was out on an open space walking path.  we were strolling along and a woman came jogging towards us with 2 dogs on leash leading her.  one was a lab type dog and the other was an intact malamute akita mix looking dog. my dog postured up next to me and the malamutish one insantly ran for him pulling the woman onto her face and she lost grip on his leash.  mine stood and barked, pulling a bit, and luckily the other just circled around back to the woman picking up her nose off the sidewalk.  didn't really feel that this was my fault at all.  he was about 1.5yrs at that time and is 3 now.