Normal Heart Rate

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by Renofan2 on 04 June 2010 - 15:06

I just left the vet with Molly and the vet showed some concern about her heart rate. It was 60 beats per minute taken after walking into the exam room. He waited and took it again 10 minutes later and it was 60. Tried to do an ekg with the tech's but she was too stressed out, so brought her back to me and she laid down for me. EKG showed 60 beats per minute again, but normal otherwise.

Molly is a 4 year old shepherd diagnosed with severe hd, epi,, low b12 levels and sibo. She is a sport dog and does fairly well but does tire alot faster than the other dogs. We (her trainer and I) do not push her. When she is ready to quit, we quit and I make sure she never over does it.

In the Fall I thought I had her epi under control. I feed her 2.25 cups per day 2 x per day of Wellness Core healthy weight with 2 tsp viokase and a scoop of Nupro. She also gets 2 tbls of can mixed in. She gets 1 fish oil capsule with each meal. She tracks 3 times per week and will be fed about a small ziploc bag of chicken, hamburger or steak) duirng the track and an typical ob session. She gets her normal meal after tracking is finshed. She gets a b12 injection about 1 x per month.

In November I had the vet run blood work and and all turned out normal.

Since February she has been loosing weight again. Today she weighs 49 lbs vs 58 in November of 2009.

I noticed she is drinking alot more than the other dogs and is urinating more (in volume not necessarily frequency).

I am having trouble getting a good size urine sample - she stops once I get something under her. I was able to get a few drops, but doubt it is enough. I just let her drink some more and will see if I can get some more to add so that her urine can be tested.

I guess what I am asking is, could 60 beats per minute be normal for Molly and if she was your dog, what other tests would you ask for? I know that EPI is an issue that must be dealt with her entire life and that she will most likely have recurring episodes. I just want to make sure that we are not attributing these new changes to EPI and maybe miss something else that could be going on.

Any advise would be appreciated.

Cheryl

by coldflame on 04 June 2010 - 18:06

I’m not qualified to give an opinion about dog’s heart rate especially in your case of some additional medical concerns. But here’s what I’ve encountered with my dog at local vet.

My 14 month old GSD had a mild bacterial infection and when I took her to a vet they told me her heart rate was at 60, which was low in vet’s opinion, and I have to keep checking it to make sure the dog is Ok. They also wanted me to take her into emergency if the heart rate drops below 60. So for the next 2 weeks I was checking her heart rate like an obsessed idiot (it was always around 60). 2 weeks later I took her back for a follow up visit, she was very excited, was jumping and checking everything, bursting with energy and happiness and her heart rate was still at 60. The vet didn’t do any additional tests but told me that she’s a healthy athletic dog and because she does sport and conditioned so well, her heart rate is lower than an average couch-potato type of dog would have and it’s not something to be concerned about. It seems 60 is OK rate for a sport dog.

I was really pissed at the vet for having me to think for 2 weeks that something is seriously wrong with my pup. It was my last visit to their office.

by spartshep on 04 June 2010 - 20:06

Since your dog is active in sport, I suspect her resting heart rate is fine at 60. Seems to me like she is not a cardiac issue unless other vital signs are affected by the lower rate...apparently they are not. With the other GI issues, electrolyte imbalance could play a role in her problems. With the amount of drinking and urination, I would look at a fasting glucose as these are classic signs of diabetes. Doing a urinalysis will tell you alot of things and you can than proceed forth based on those results.

by Vinegarjoe on 04 June 2010 - 23:06

Hi.

My 20 month old was diagnosed with Inherited Ventricular Arrithmia (sp ? ) when he was 11 months old.

IVA is a sustained irregular heartbeat and sadly, some GSD's with IVA go to sleep and don't wake up, as the irregular beats seem to occur more frequently when the dog is at rest.

One of the symptoms is a slow heart rate. Gunther's heart rate is 80- Our Vet said that normal heart rate for a young GSD is usually around 100-120

IVA is the dirty little secret of the GSD, as there is no genetic markers for it, no test that can be done on potential breeding pairs for it.

It usually affects young dogs, and (according to the specialist) if your dog makes it past 18 months, generally the dog can go on to live a normal life. Now that we are past the 18 month hurdle, we are breathing a sigh of relief.

I am not saying that your dog has IVA, nor would I suggest that you spend the money to visit a canine cardiologist, however it might be worth mentioning IVA to your Vet.

We found out about it accidently, when a chest x-ray for what we thought was possibly something lodged in Gunther's windpipe, revealed what appeared to be a "spot" on his heart and after travelling to the specialist, an EKG was perfomed and then a heart monitor was worn by Gunther and the results revealed that during a 7 hour sleep period he experienced over 8000 irregular beats.

I hope you find a solution. It's hard when our GSD's have something wrong with them and we don't know what it is or what may have cause it.

Best of luck.

Vinegarjoe

by gsdlvr2 on 05 June 2010 - 00:06

Vets often express concern I think because most dogs they see are not in shape and the heart rates are higher. My dogs average 60. All are healthy.I don't think there is reason for concern with Molly in that regard. It's probably the sign of a healthy heart, efficiently pumping. If it was my dog I would do nothing further if the EKG looked normal and there were no extra heart sounds.

by Renofan2 on 05 June 2010 - 11:06

Thanks everyone. I will continue to monitor her heart rate at home and will review with the vet in 2 weeks. Hoping most are correct here and she is just in good shape and has a low resting rate. I have dropped off the urine sample so they will test for diabetes. Hoping that is not the case, but will deal with that if it is. Vet suggested I mix in some of Brenna's puppy food to see if that will help her put some weight on. I will check out the pet store and see if I can find a food with a little more fat in it (Wellness healthy weight has around 6%). I read where EPI dogs can handle up to 11%, but need a low fiber dog food. My concern is that she is still passing large stools - not mushy like before she was on the enzymes, but not totally solid and there is alot of volume which indictes she is passing alot thru her system and not retaining nutrients. That would also explain why she is still loosing weight. I really don't think she can afford to loose much more, so need to find a solution that works soon.

Thank you again,

Cheryl

by LynOD on 06 June 2010 - 23:06

Hey Cheryl

How are her stools. I would never be able to mix nupro in my EPI girls food too much fat. I would be careful with the fat in a puppy food as well. No more than 12 % fat is the ideal for EPI. I would definately follow up with the urine. Heart wise you are probably fine, but keep an eye and in touch with your vet. Good luck

by Renofan2 on 07 June 2010 - 10:06

Hi LynOD:

The Nupro I am using has 11% fat so I think is ok, however recently I have been reading where Fiber is an issue for EPI dogs. This Nupro Powder has 20% Fiber, so I wonder if that is a problem for Molly. The Wellness Puppy I am using for Brenna is too high in fat. I used to feed Molly Solid Gold. She did ok with that food so I may try that again.

Her stools are soft, but not mush, but there is alot of it and still yellow in color.

I am letting the enzyme sit for 30 minutes before feeding her.

Cheryl

by LynOD on 07 June 2010 - 11:06

Fiber should be around 3-4%. Soft and yellow on a regualr basis could be a problem especially when accompanied by weight loss. Have you treated for SIBO lately? My girl is on a raw diet and doing great. She gets a ground chicken and bone mix no veggies, I add some on occaision in sml amount. I also feed green tripe on a regular basis 1 tbsp with her meal. For a supplement she gets 1 scoop of Canine Complete ( Wholistic pet) on each meal. Soemetiems I switch the chicken up with turkey or duck meat bone mix. But for the most part it is chicken and she has done well. Her stools are firm and brown, only an occaisional loose one.

by Renofan2 on 12 June 2010 - 02:06

LynOD: I treated Molly with Tylan and she seems to be doing a little better. Urine analysis came back - no diabetes, but crystals in her urine. My vet does not think she needs to be treated for it but a friend told me that I should start giving her vitamin c and d. Another friend found a specialist that is having good results with treating epi dogs. This specialist will run some tests on Monday and reivew my concerns regarding her health. My vet recommended I put her on Iams Low Residue food but when I read the ingredients, I decided against it. It has beet pulp in it which he said is good for the sibo but I read that is bad for her epi. I have stopped adding Nupro to her food and will start mixing in Solid Gold again. I am thinking the Wellness has too little fat and it is making her loose weight. I am hoping by doing all this she will start gaining some weight back.

Thanks for you help. I should have suspected she was having another bout of sibo, but I had her tested in March and she was ok. My vet did not seem to think I needed to test again.

It gets very confusing trying to manage her EPI and SIBO. Hopefully she is back on track.

Again, thank you for your help!

Cheryl

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