Schutzhund Stick - Page 1

If a schutzhund dog tries to avoid the stick, does that mean weak nerves, not enough training or something else!?

The answer is  'yes'.

It's going to vary, dog to dog but the two things you mentioned can be reasons the dog is avoiding the stick hits.

A dog trained mostly in prey, with very little work done on the defensive aspect of protection phase can become very conflicted when confronted with the stick hits.

Does it mean weak nerves, yes it can but it can also mean a dog who is not particularly strong in direct confrontation with the helper.

If you think about the picture of a helper in the drive and stick hits at a trail, there is no other time in the trial when the dog is so challenged, IMHO even the long bite is less of a direct challenge to a dog than the drive and stick hits.  We're asking the dog to stay in the fight, on his own (ie without the back-up of his handler) with a large threat leaning over him, staring him down and presenting physical threat in the form of the stick.

I don't know about you but personally *I'd* think twice before hanging on to a sleeve in that scenario!

Some dogs are bred to relish the fight and they're going to hang in there no matter what, some dogs need more confidence building, more careful training and some dogs just aren't going to want to stay in that fight period, end of sentence.  

If your dog is still strong in the grip but jucking and jiving at the stick hits, sight unseen I'd say that some more patient careful training is called for to help solidify in your dog's mind that hanging onto that sleeve, no matter what is the name of the game.  If your dog is disengaging entirely from the sleeve at the stick hits ... that's a problem that no one is going to be able to fix across the internet.

It's not the strike of the stick as much as the "threat" of the stick that is probably of greatest concern to dogs with perceived "stick issues".  Actually most old school folk (myself included) feel that the greatest test in SchH, the SchHI "attack out of the blind" was the separator of the men from the boys.

Has your helper ever stick corrected your dog?

"If a schutzhund dog tries to avoid the stick, does that mean weak nerves, not enough training or something else!?"

This is a loaded question where more info, or perhaps a video and short history is needed and there is no clear answer. Was the dog fine before and this just came out of the blue? How old is the dog? YOung, inexperienced dog or an inexperienced decoy? How long has it been trained? Could be 100s of things...

You ask:

Could it be weak nerves? Yes, it could. This is the very first thing that comes to anyone's mind with such an ambiguous question. It doesn't have to be the case with your dog, but it is definitively a possibility.

Not enough training? What "training" do you mean? Desanitizing it to the stick threat? That could be it, too.

Could it be "something else"? Yes, again, it could, but "something else" could be many things, without knowling what something else is, it is hard to give a definite yes or no answer you are seeking.

To summarize: It could be all 3 and without knowling anything about the situation except what was given in the post, just reading that short 1 sentence question, it could be anything.

If a dog made it to the US national and tries to avoid stick hits, could it be anything but weak nerves?

Depending upon the dog, a vet visit might be in order to rule out any physical ailment such as spine injury or the like that might be causing a sudden aversion to the stick hits.

I think if the dog had back problems, you would see something on the jumps, the strikes across his sides (not down on the spine) with a padded stick should not be the problem.

Phil,

True but we don't know from this post if he has or hasn't shown hesitance to jump.  In fact we don't really know diddly from this post.

But if I had trained a dog up to national level and suddenly he was avoiding stick hits, unless I knew of something happening to him (ie he really got belted one or the helper fell on him in mid stick hit or something equally psychologically jarring) my first call would be to the vet to do a work up and make sure there was no underlying physical issue, before I started picking apart the dog or the training regime.

Phil good question. I have to ask, why the hell would/should a helper EVER correct a dog using a stick hit? Put a damn long line and a prong on the dog, get someone to help handle the dog as it comes around teh blind and do it right. But I have to say I hear about and see this stuff way too much. Not weak dogs at all, just had the shit beat out of them by a "helper." My dog can and will take stick hits all day, on his sides but if a helper ever put one over his muzzle or head, that helper would be walking off the field with that stick up his ass.

The dog had outstanding outreach and back drive while running. No hesitance to jump and he was literally flying. No signs of back problems. What could be the cause of stick avoidance?