Echo Back to Basics - Page 1

I'm not sure if I've done this right but...

We've gone back to basics with Echo after two full weeks of no training.  I apologize for the crummy video but several of you wanted to see her working.  Tell me if you see something we are doing wrong and what I need to do to correct it.  You can't see the helper in the last bite but he is doing a lot of back & forth movements with the pillow on a lead just out of her reach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KdWst30HF8

As a rule, I don't like to comment on someone else's training plans, since obviously we're not there for the whole picture and plans.

That said, one thing you might want to discuss with your helper/TD is your reaction when she drops the pillow.

For me, personally, if my dog drops the sleeve or the pillow at any time in bite work I immediately kick it away -keep it in motion- and pull my dog back, getting all excited about "Where did it go, you lost it!"  Bring drive for it back up immediately and don't let my dog take nibble bites of the toy.  The idea is, 'hold on to that pillow or you lose it!' not 'oh I can put it down and pick it back up if I want'.

My personal preference is to have the helper coming in to the pillow and tugging harder with Echo to ensure the dog has a full grip on it and only release when Echo shows determination for possession.  Then circle Echo once or twice back to the helper for another tug and use the same release when the dog shows possession.

In the video I noticed the circling is probably too long for a brief tug and Echo is loosening his grip for the pillow too soon.  Another thing I noticed is the timing for the release of the pillow; in the video it is timed only after Echo has sat on the ground when it should been  when Echo was at his peak for possession.

FHTracker,
Yes, that is what I'm supposed to be doing and it is my fault she gets back to the pillow after dropping it.  The helper has told me the exact same thing.  I need to be quicker and pay closer attention when she drops it.  If she sees the helper going after it she wants it back and she can be very quick...she is also very strong so if she catches me off guard she has it again.  I will work harder on that.

Poseidon,
Ok, I see what you are saying.  The helper was having me sitz her and try to calm her.  I agree with you and will take that up with him next time.  I also shared comments with him from the other thread.  He agrees and is willing to work with us.  I just need to be able to tell him what I want from him.  I'm learning!

Thanks again for the comments!
Deb

Debi SOOOOO much better than the last sessions!   I agree with the others, but also please know that you should be proud too.

Debbie,what tracker aand that other guy said is on the spot.


Now, that I see the video of the dog working instead of going by few pictures and your descriptions, the dog is really not bad and it does have the drive and working ability to get the job done.

It is a nice female that can AT LEAST go Sch1, no question, possibly more, depending on your determination and how skillfully you guys coach her.

If you could do me a favor, please. It is a small investment for youand you will only gain a lot of info. Pick up a book by Garry Patterson from www.sirioustrainer.com which is like 27 bucks. It is packed chock full of good info that will serve for years to come, instead of repying on jackasses like me on the internet. yes, we can help, but a book read, anytime you feel like reading is so much better. I feel this book is a very good match for you as you seem to ask intelligent questions,weigh and dissect the answers and they seem to be sinking.

Pick up a copy and give it to your helper as a gift too, he is an integral part of your and your dog's training.

Now, onto the video. The dog got the drives, there is a goodbond between you too, and once you and the dog settle into the routine the mosaic will start to fill.

the fight for the tug should be a little more animated, it's not a fight to bring the defense into the dog, as she would fold now if that were the case, but rather about the possession of the pillow. It's mine! No, it's mine! No -mine. Okay, then, win it from me, by pulling and tugging... Your helper and you need to determine when the dog is in the higest drive and is really, really trying to win the tug - that's the time to slip and let her have it.


Once he releases the tug, do the circle a little faster and little shorter. She cradling... don't "pet her" as you are doing in the video, but cradle her. Meaning, right hand under the chin nd left hand gently stroking her on the left side. Under the chin hand is important as you are supporting her head holding the pillow, that helps with holding it calmly. During all this time, you have to be multitasking. as soon as you see THE FIRST SIGN of her about to spitt the pillow, lift her up or out her if she knows out, and the game starts again - spirited. The first sign would be just a second as she kind of tries to keep the bite, but she can'tas the drive is lowering, so her mouth kind of starts a small quiver... tough to explain with a keyboard, but easy to spot  on the spot.

The reason why she spits the pillow, then gnaws on it on the ground (don't allow this anymore, you snooze - you lose!) is that the circle was too long. She tries to hold the pillow and to contain her drives, but she physicially can't, the drive is lowering as she circles, therefore chewy behavior.

To summarize, The dog is fine, she can do the jobif you stick with it and all of you play the parts.

wrong link for the book, here is a correct one: http://www.siriustrainer.com/gear/books/trnbehaviorpg.htm

Thanks Sueincc,
Trust me, I am very proud of my girl.  I know I have a good dog...I'm just trying not to screw her up. 

Thanks Adi,
I'm glad you saw the video and can see that Echo does have drive.  Thanks for the input on the circling.  You and Posiedon both pointed out that we're doing it too long.  Fine by me as it's hard for an old, fat gal to do much running.  LOL!  I hope you noticed she about pulled me over in that last session.  Big as I am, she can and has yanked me off my feet, even when I'm planted.  I always hear "be a post, be a tree".  Yeah, right!  I handed her over to the guys one day because they thought it was just me...LOL!  They got their eyes opened when she did it to them too. 
I will be ordering that book for my trainer and myself.  I agree that it's nice to have a book to fall back on but I don't consider you or anyone else who commented on my other thread to be jackasses.  I know it's hard to know what someone is asking and then trying to provide helpful info that they can understand and put to good use.  I appreciate everyone's comments.  I can weed out the crap (most of the time) and glean the good stuff.  I know sometimes this site can get crazy but there are a lot of good people willing to help newbies like me when they know I'm really wanting help.

Have a good weekend everyone!
Deb

DebiSue:  Get yourself a pair of soccer shoes, they have cleats, which  makes it much easier to "be a tree".  They are also great for laying tracks in short grass.  I just had to buy a new pair, got them at Big 5 on sale for $29.00.   

To me the helper should have got hold of the handle of the pillow he then has more contact with the dogs mouth. As the Dog was walked around after the first circuit he should again have got hold of the handle of the pillow it would have bought the dog up to grip again and carry on like that If after a few goes with the Pup hanging onto the Pillow the Pup should have been bought in by the handler one arm under the chest to support the Dog and Stroked its Flank in a Come to me The Dog would have hung on to the Pillow but relaxed then the Handler could come in to get hold of the Handle again the idea if for the Pup to hold onto the Pillow not release it at his stage of training
That is what would have happened had it been Izzy over here, but she would be on a Sleeve but the same or similar routine
Steve1