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by Two Moons on 24 May 2010 - 19:05
Questions,
Is this rare or does it occur often in GSD's ?
At what age would you expect to see the first symptoms?
Is this rare or does it occur often in GSD's ?
At what age would you expect to see the first symptoms?
by TessJ10 on 24 May 2010 - 19:05
No first-hand experience, but what I've read says onset is usually 1-5 years of age. As to how common, this article http://www.globalspan.net/epi.htm estimates half of the cases are in GSDs - don't know how many cases that is, or considering how very many GSD there are, what the percentage is.
Here's another article for you: http://www.total-german-shepherd.com/EPIintheGSD.html
Here's another article for you: http://www.total-german-shepherd.com/EPIintheGSD.html
by noddi on 24 May 2010 - 19:05
two moons.i dont think that EPI is as rare as some might want us to think.i am from the uk and had a male i bred diagnosed with EPI at the end of 2007/beginning of 2008.he was aged 6 and three quarters.i,ve been breeding gsds since 1989 and up till this one particular litter had not received any knowledge of any pups sold or retained by me of having any genetic disorders,only constructional faults.i retained 3 from this litter and all were PTS.for genetic health disorders.the male was PTS a year after his disorder was diagnosed.he also had a heart problem,one female PTS.after having 2 epileptic fits aged 3,after 6 weeks of treatment,she also developed other symptoms ie.wouldnt eat and then had breathing problems and on blood testing at the vets,all her blood counts were very abnormal and the other female was found one morning in her kennel having grand mal seizures continuously aged 7 and a half.i think that EPI manifests itself in younger animals but am no expert on this subject.i do wonder if these conditions in my animals were actually down to CANCER,as the vets finally decided with the 3 yr.old bitch that it was more than likely cancer and not idiopathic epilepsy which was 1st diagnosed and the TPI level (re.EPI)on the male was borderline.all the data on these 3 has been to sent to the ladies who are researching and coallating the pedigrees of afflicated gsds,re gsd genetic health diseases.i have been advised by one of these ladies that my 3 are the only ones she has that bear my affix.this mating was surely a disasterous one for my kennel.havent bred a litter since.Carole Spelman.
by flygirl55 on 24 May 2010 - 19:05
Moons,
Having to live with an EPI dog, I've had to learn alot about it. Tess is right about the ages. Generally, it sets in at around 18 months to 2 years (seems to go with dog "puberty"). It seems to be most prevalent in GSDs, but other breeds can have it. Shepherds seem to be the most acute cases. There is a line of thought that EPI runs in certain lines but so far I haven't come across alot of scientific proof. I do know in my girl's case, she is the only one of a litter of 7 or 8 that showed this and no others from the mom/different sire or repeat breeding have cropped up. Unfortunately, the vast majority of vets aren't really familiar with EPI and how it presents. Alot of the affected dogs are treated time and time again for IBO-they respond to the antibiotics but then relapse.It becomes a nasty nasty cycle. The tried and true test is a TLI test (blood). Depending on the level, the vet can rule out or rule in EPI.The test measures the level of pancreatic enzymes in the dog's system. EPI dogs have little to none (hence having to treat their food). Then comes the food thing - getting them on the right diet is a challenge but when they get into a good routine, they do quite well. There again, many vets are not really familiar with what works and what doesn't. I found a great article in The Whole Dog Journal last year that gave a very good accurate picture of EPI. You might want to look it up. I gave a copy of it to the vets and vet students that I worked with.
Having to live with an EPI dog, I've had to learn alot about it. Tess is right about the ages. Generally, it sets in at around 18 months to 2 years (seems to go with dog "puberty"). It seems to be most prevalent in GSDs, but other breeds can have it. Shepherds seem to be the most acute cases. There is a line of thought that EPI runs in certain lines but so far I haven't come across alot of scientific proof. I do know in my girl's case, she is the only one of a litter of 7 or 8 that showed this and no others from the mom/different sire or repeat breeding have cropped up. Unfortunately, the vast majority of vets aren't really familiar with EPI and how it presents. Alot of the affected dogs are treated time and time again for IBO-they respond to the antibiotics but then relapse.It becomes a nasty nasty cycle. The tried and true test is a TLI test (blood). Depending on the level, the vet can rule out or rule in EPI.The test measures the level of pancreatic enzymes in the dog's system. EPI dogs have little to none (hence having to treat their food). Then comes the food thing - getting them on the right diet is a challenge but when they get into a good routine, they do quite well. There again, many vets are not really familiar with what works and what doesn't. I found a great article in The Whole Dog Journal last year that gave a very good accurate picture of EPI. You might want to look it up. I gave a copy of it to the vets and vet students that I worked with.
by noddi on 24 May 2010 - 19:05
sorry on my post i put tpi level,this is incorrect its tli level sorry.a lot of people here in the uk use pigs pancreases if they can get them instead of the manufactured enzymes.Carole.
by Sunsilver on 24 May 2010 - 20:05
Here's the right place to go to ask questions about EPI, Moons!
www.epi4dogs.com/
The age of onset is variable, though with the dogs I'm aware of, it usually happens at about a year or two. Recently, someone had a Shiloh that developed chronic diarrhea and weight loss at the age of 8. I said, "Isn't that too old for EPI to be diagnosed? The answer was NO!
(Unfortunately, it was not EPI, and the dog had to be PTS. The owner did not ask for a PM, but I strongly suspect cancer was the cause.)
One of the breeders on the Shiloh forum has a Shiloh with EPI. She has learned to control it so well with diet and enzymes, she was recently told the dog could stand to lose a few pounds! She also feeds raw.
From the EPI site I linked to above: "GSD and their crossbreeds make up 50% of positively diagnosed EPI cases"
www.epi4dogs.com/
The age of onset is variable, though with the dogs I'm aware of, it usually happens at about a year or two. Recently, someone had a Shiloh that developed chronic diarrhea and weight loss at the age of 8. I said, "Isn't that too old for EPI to be diagnosed? The answer was NO!
(Unfortunately, it was not EPI, and the dog had to be PTS. The owner did not ask for a PM, but I strongly suspect cancer was the cause.)
One of the breeders on the Shiloh forum has a Shiloh with EPI. She has learned to control it so well with diet and enzymes, she was recently told the dog could stand to lose a few pounds! She also feeds raw.
From the EPI site I linked to above: "GSD and their crossbreeds make up 50% of positively diagnosed EPI cases"
by LynOD on 24 May 2010 - 21:05
My girl is out of czech boarder patrol lines and has EPI. Diagnosed at 15 mos. Showed some early symptoms large volumous stools alot of gas and then EPI kicked in at 15 mos. She lost 10 lbs in a week! My vet was experienced in EPI so we caught it right away. Controled through raw diet and enzymes she is now 7 1/2 years of age.
by shostring on 24 May 2010 - 22:05
My daughters boxer started to take seizures he is 9years old the vet said it was epi he is on meds but since blood tests ect the vet now thinks it is a brain tumour he is doing quite well on the meds the vet hospital that he was in for 2 days wanted to give him a brain scan but it was 1,500.00pounds and she could not afford this on top of the vet bill 700 pounds we just hope whatever time he has that it will be happy and pain free
by starrchar on 24 May 2010 - 22:05
Shostring,
I think you are referring to epilepsy. I know a lot of people use the term "epi" for epilepsy (me included). EPI, which is what is being discussed on this thread, stands for Exocrine pancreatic insufficiency. Exocrine pancreatic insufficiency refers to failure of the pancreas to secrete digestive enzymes normally. This results in a syndrome characterized by diarrhea and weight loss, often despite the presence of a normal or increased appetite.
I hope your daughter's dog repsonds well to the meds and that he doesn't have a brain tumor. A great website for canine epilepsy is http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/
The best, Char
I think you are referring to epilepsy. I know a lot of people use the term "epi" for epilepsy (me included). EPI, which is what is being discussed on this thread, stands for Exocrine pancreatic insufficiency. Exocrine pancreatic insufficiency refers to failure of the pancreas to secrete digestive enzymes normally. This results in a syndrome characterized by diarrhea and weight loss, often despite the presence of a normal or increased appetite.
I hope your daughter's dog repsonds well to the meds and that he doesn't have a brain tumor. A great website for canine epilepsy is http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/
The best, Char
by Renofan2 on 24 May 2010 - 23:05
Hi Moons:
Unfortunately I am getting very experienced with EPI. I know alot of people in my area whose GSD's have EPI. At our club our President's male Bullet has EPI and is 9 years old. He responds well to Enzymes although to look at him, you can tell he has EPI. Not sure when he was diagnosed. My 4 year old female - Molly was diagnosed at just under 3. Classic signs - loose stools, stool eating, thin. I had asked my vet who owned an GSD with EPI to test her for months before he ever agreed to do so. I struggle to keep her weight at 50 to 51 lbs. She also has SIBO and b12 deficiencies so goes on Tylan during SIBO flare ups and gets a b12 shot every 2 to 3 weeks. This really helps with her energy level. She is on about 2 tsp viokase per meal per day A friend's GSD was diagnosed at age 10 months and I met up with some people who have a male out of the same breeder as my older dog, who found out their dog has epi at around 2. I have run into at least 7 people whose GSD have EPI in my area. I really think is alot more common than most expect. I had asked my Vet if there were any studies or data supplied by vets to identify how many dogs have EPI but he could not find any data. I figured one way would be to check Biocase and Viokase sales, which is the most frequently prescribed enzyme. That may give a better idea at least on the diagnosed cases. I also agree that alot of vets are not familar with the disease. Luckily mine had first hand experience with it but he still did not think Molly had it at first I had to insist she be tested.
Cheryl.
Unfortunately I am getting very experienced with EPI. I know alot of people in my area whose GSD's have EPI. At our club our President's male Bullet has EPI and is 9 years old. He responds well to Enzymes although to look at him, you can tell he has EPI. Not sure when he was diagnosed. My 4 year old female - Molly was diagnosed at just under 3. Classic signs - loose stools, stool eating, thin. I had asked my vet who owned an GSD with EPI to test her for months before he ever agreed to do so. I struggle to keep her weight at 50 to 51 lbs. She also has SIBO and b12 deficiencies so goes on Tylan during SIBO flare ups and gets a b12 shot every 2 to 3 weeks. This really helps with her energy level. She is on about 2 tsp viokase per meal per day A friend's GSD was diagnosed at age 10 months and I met up with some people who have a male out of the same breeder as my older dog, who found out their dog has epi at around 2. I have run into at least 7 people whose GSD have EPI in my area. I really think is alot more common than most expect. I had asked my Vet if there were any studies or data supplied by vets to identify how many dogs have EPI but he could not find any data. I figured one way would be to check Biocase and Viokase sales, which is the most frequently prescribed enzyme. That may give a better idea at least on the diagnosed cases. I also agree that alot of vets are not familar with the disease. Luckily mine had first hand experience with it but he still did not think Molly had it at first I had to insist she be tested.
Cheryl.
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