Seeks the opinions of experienced BREEDERS - Page 1

 I'm Seeks the opinions from experienced BREEDERS who can tell me whether this 5 generations Linebreeding is good and everything you know from experience and if it's ok to have so many of the same dogs in a pedigree I specially appreciate breeder's opinion from Europe




Linebreeding for the progency of V(BVS) Aras Splitberg and Aischa vom Panoniansee

Linebreeding - 5 generations

5 - 5,5........................................... in V6 Hanno von der Wienerau
5 - 5............................................. in VA2 Karly von Arminius
5 - 5............................................. in VA6 (N) Wobo vom Lärchenhain
5 - 5,5........................................... in VA3(B) V3(1993 BSZS) Amigo vom Belgier
5 - 5............................................. in V Uta vom Fürstenberg
4 - 4............................................. in VA2 Jango vom Fürstenberg
5 - 5............................................. in V Nina von der Römerau
4 - 4............................................. in V 31 Una von Oxsalis
5 - 5,5........................................... in V Xina vom Wildsteiger Land
4 - 4,4........................................... in V Dannie von Oxsalis
3 - 3............................................. in VA3 (2002 BSZS) Esko vom Dänischen Hof
5 - 5,5........................................... in Imme vom Lechtal
4 - 4,4........................................... in VA1 (SL) Cento vom Monopteros
3 - 3,3........................................... in VA (HR) Aischa vom Thaipan

Looks like that dog is it's own grandfather!  LOL

Vickie
PowerHaus

I can't say I would ever linebreed on Esko. 

edit:

Very pretty bitch but she is already very heavily linebred. I thought 2-2 was not allowable by SV rules. On top of that, breeding these dogs anyway is 2-2 on littermates. Very risky, you must find something very special about that M litter Thaipan?

"I can't say I would ever linebreed on Esko. "

Okay, you knew someone was going to ask your reasons..   

I was just looking over the comments, and someone said his bitework sucked, is that why?  His saddle also looks washed out, not really my type, but he has a few fans...

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/user_comments/25506.html

I don't care for his personal type, not my favorite dog. He is undeniably an amazing dog for hips, so it is good to see his line still alive, mainly through Zamp. The bitework is my main concern, I've seen some of his progeny work in person. I tried to get you a quote from my Urma book the year he was VA3, as mention is made of working ability of his progeny, but I loaned out my 2002 URMA book and never got it back. Maybe someone else has it?

Can't say anything in person about this dog, but I've done some close line and in breeding and the fact is, every superior breed of domestic animal is closely bred at some point, and cows, pigs, etc, were developed by close inbreeding, and inbreeding is why wild animal species look so similar.  Interesting topic: most people think "oh, wild animals move away and never breed with their own family" which is just not true.  The average deer in your backyard is TIGHTLY inbred.

Anyway, what inbreeding gives you is MORE of what you ALREADY have.  If the dogs throw good hips, you'll probably get good hips, but if the bitework is weak, more likely than not you'll get weak bitework.  Inbreeding per se does NOT "add" anythng to the animals produced.  Some scientist have bred brother to sister fish for 100 generations and the animals are fine.  It all depends on the honesty of the breeder in evaling their stock and if they have the guts to cull hard. (Like Nature)

So, if you want MORE of what these dogs are, then I would say consider it if the stogies at the SV will let you (eye roll).  But if you know of weaknesses in the line, expect them in spades as well.     

The pedigree is a combination of dogs that produce excellent conformation and excellent working ability. It's difficult to say what came from each generation as the pairs were mated. Offspring posses different traits of the parents in each litter. The breeder has to combine the traits to produce the next generation. It's impossible to tell from a series of linebreedings exactly what you have. You can get a general idea, but, the proof will be in the animal you have before you.

I have never bred a Puppy in my Life, I  only found the Stud to go with a Female one time that is the Father of Izzy, So i guess i am not qualified to answer you except to say Yes, the Puppies will be Line bred
But' on the Maternal line through Aischa vom Thaipan, so the Pups will be Line Bred on the Female side 
Steve1

NoCurs, just curious. How do you know deer are inbred? The reason I ask is that I read an interesting study on sparrows awhile back. Researchers found that female sparrows remembered their father's voice for their entire lifetime and avoided him like the plague. That's not to say that brother/sister and other types of inbreeding didn't occur, but it does make you wonder if maybe those relatives might be ruled out as well. How do we KNOW deer are inbreeding? Just an assumption? In the California mountains deer are so insanely plentiful that you practically have to kick them out of the way to cross your yard. How would you KNOW which one is related to which, unless you tagged/DNAed them? (I'm not arguing, I'm asking.)