Opinions on White GSDs - Page 3

WOW!  This is all great info.!  Thanks everyone so much :)  I also appreciate all the contact info and breeder suggestions :).  It is so nice to have a place to come to to get reliable info.

Thank You Again

~Rooka

> I have trained a few over the years for police work, just as good a hunter as any. The only drawback was at night during any type of moon you could easily see them coming, a tactical nightmare!! I live down south now and the red clay is murder on their coats when they lay on it as well!! Other than that I love em!

Max v Stephanits at first used white GSDs but later when they started to be used for Police declared white color disqualifying fault. That said it is a free country (still) and if you like white get white. However  I have 2 points to make.
 
1. never buy a GSD based on color. That is the least important factor.

2. Most of the white GSDs were VERY aggressive.  Pure white domestic animals have more neurological problems. It is based on melanin who gives dogs (animals) the dark color. Melanin is also found in midbrain, where it may have protective effect.
 What is important is to look at color of the skin and not hair. Skin, gums, nails, eyes, nose to some degree tongs (dark spots) needs to be dark or black and not pink . Then the hair can be white. Polar bear has dark skin,eyes, nose,...  The pink skin means often temperament problems, and increased aggression. 
 It is not natural (pink skin and so on)  and any time you deviate from breeding for trait which is not natural you  will inherit behavioral problems. That is because genes do not control just one trait but more then one trait.  Physical traits go often together with physiological and mental traits. 
Thus if you are stuck on a white GSD at least make sure that he has dark skin, gums, eyes, black nose  and toe nails. 
If you breed, them pay attention to the  same. 
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com 

That is really great info Prager! Thanks:)   

I am fasinated by the history and science behind these dogs.  I am learning more and more each day.  I can not thank you all enough for sharing your hard earned knowledge with me.

 I am not STUCK on a White GSD as I had stated I had read all this stuff saying they tend to be mellow and friendly over all.  I am glad I have gotten the other side of things.  I would NEVER pick another companion for my famiy based simplely on coat.  I  I want a realatively mellow, friendly, loyal dog that will be good with my kids.  Smarts is a must and i hope the dog will bark at strangers and put up enough of a fuss to deter the bad guys :)


Temperment is the most important criteria, I have two young sons it has to be, it would be anyways.  I really think all GSDs are beautiful.  They have a regalty that is unmatched.  I know there is a breeder out there who breeds solid,  good tempered GSDs that has a pup that would be a perfect fit for our family.  I just want to take my time  finding her (really want a female.)  I can never replace Abbie, ever.  I can only hope we are able to find a new companion that takes as good of care of us as she did.

Thanks Again

Rooka

Hi Rooka,
I did not mean to be deragatory with the word  "stuck" . I am sorry.
You are definitelly on the right track. Look for a working dog of good qualiry. Socialize it properly and train it. 
 Please let me know if I may be of any help. 
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com 

Thank you Mr. Prager I am greatful for the incredibble knowlege you have shared. :)

~Rooka

p.s. please forgive typos, my 2 1/2 year old is "helping" mommy type :P

This is an interesting discussion, but, I feel that some of it is a bunch of non-sense.
The immune system of a White GSD is no worse than any other GSD. In the U.S. we may see more White's with health issues, but, it is really due to the White's mostly being relegated to poor breeding practices. I also believe that because of the "myth" created long ago by the Nazi's that White GSD's were diseased and/or more prone to disease, which carried over to the U.S., that many are quick to jump on that bandwagon at the first sign of any health issue. Overall, I have seen way more Black, Black and Red and Sable GSD's with health issues than Whites. The GSD as a breed, overall, has many, many health issues and it is not color dependent.
I can honestly say that my White GSD is the healthiest dog that I own and the healthiest dog that I have ever owned.
When one speaks of breeding for color with White's is this not the same as those who breed black dogs?
The white gene, just as the all black gene, is recessive. Is breeding for looks not the same as those who breed black and red dogs? What about the current trend of breeding extremely dark black sables? This is the same approach and it will eventually bite these dogs in the ass also. How about we just try to get back to breeding excellent quality, healthy dogs and let's not give a shit about what color they are???
If you really take the time to think about it, isn't removing the White's from the genepool what started the decline of the breed in the first place? This was the first sign of people breeding GSD's for the wrong reason and eventually what led to Max quitting the SV (that he created).
I also find the notion that White's are more aggressive to be a little funny. Isn't this what all you bad-ass GSD breeders are trying to produce??? If this were really true about White's and their heightened aggression I would think that all of you self-professed bad-asses would want to own them and be breeding to them, no? (Oh, I know, you're all so terribly concerned about temperament, hahahahaha!!!)
It's 2010. All the bullshit genetic myths about White GSD's have been proven false many years ago through DNA testing. It might be good for the rest of us to catch up.
If you are wondering whether they can compete in Schutzhund, you may want to ask Pete Kovach. He was on the 2009 USA WUSV team. I seem to remember reading that he owned and trialed a White GSD in Germany that was 20+ times Sch3.

(Hans, a Polar bear's hair is actually clear, not white. It looks white because of how light enters in to the hair. It is not the same as white hair on a dog.)

Have to agree with OGBS to some extent.  The white that occurs in the GSD is not the same as that associated with sensorineural defects caused by lack of pigment.  The white GSD is in fact pigmented.  The pigment is just very pale in the coat due to the effects of one gene that removes just one type of pigment - eumelanin, and leaves the other - phaeomelanin, intact.

The type of white, either whole body or patches, that is associated with these defects, occurs in many breeds and crosses, typically the Bull Terrier, Dalmatian, white Boxer.  No pigment is present in the white areas as melanocyte (pigment cell)migration has been restricted.

One breeder I' ve personally known for 30+ years is Joanne Chanyi in Ontario Can.  Hoofprint Kennel.  Her dogs have been used for guide work, police work, service dogs, SAR... and several exported to Europe as the basis for the Swisse Shepherd there.  If you tell Jo exactely what you're looking for she'll tell you honestly if she has it, and if she doesn't will suggest other current breeders who might.  Jo took part in the GSD Genetics project which was used to uncover genetic links to Spinal issues and other problems in the WGSD and the GSD in general.  Her believe that dealing with a smaller genetic pool in Whites it would be easier to define the genetic markers... she gave open access to all her breeding records, and genetic testing done on her dogs, and encouraged other breeders to do the same.  

Best o' luck whatever you get.  whether it's white, green, purple or orange... do your homework the same way.  Ask questions and make notes.  Good breeders aren't afraid to share info.  Silbersee is a great choice if you go with standard colors and has always been helpful with any questions I've seen put out there without ripping anyone else up.  :)  Yes there ARE good people around still