This is a placeholder text
Group text
by NoCurs on 19 July 2010 - 00:07
Hardly a "typical" no kill.
"No kill" just means they shut their doors to the animals that need help the most when they are full.
After 20 years in the business I can honestly say Ihave ZERO respect for anything to do with so called "no kill". It's all about people just wanting to make themselves feel better. It certainly is not about REALISTICALLY dealing with pet overpopulation.
Almost all realistic shelters realize that no matter how cute the surrondings, dogs have a "shelf life" concerning their ability to be long-termed boarded without a special "one". Dogs need an owner, and if they can't have one, it's a dam shame.
"No kill" just means they shut their doors to the animals that need help the most when they are full.
After 20 years in the business I can honestly say Ihave ZERO respect for anything to do with so called "no kill". It's all about people just wanting to make themselves feel better. It certainly is not about REALISTICALLY dealing with pet overpopulation.
Almost all realistic shelters realize that no matter how cute the surrondings, dogs have a "shelf life" concerning their ability to be long-termed boarded without a special "one". Dogs need an owner, and if they can't have one, it's a dam shame.
by Doberdoodle on 19 July 2010 - 00:07
That particular shelter I posted pictures of, it left a sour taste in my mouth regarding Pits...
A few years ago, I met one of their managing employees, she gave me her card. A couple weeks later, someone dumped a Pit Bull on me, and I was already maxed out on dogs and could not house this one, so I gave her a call. This Pit was about 40 pounds, adorable, leash trained, submissive, great with my dogs. I called PAWS and described her, the employees exact words to me were "No, we can't take her. Pit Bulls don't adopt out well." So I wrote that into a review I posted for them online, and was contacted by one of the owners, saying that was not true, they "take Pits all the time", and I should take down my review. Oh, sorry, forgot you take in 1 or 2 Pits for publicity? Liars. Maybe they would adopt out well if you educated people and told some of these yuppies not to stereotype breeds. If I would have called asking them to place a Doodle or a Yorkie I bet they would be like "come in now!"
I get training dogs from this shelter all the time, so I know they adopt out plenty of ill-behaved dogs, fear biters, even one that bit someone in the face! They called it a Shepherd Mix, the woman brings it in and it's a purebred Malinois. Yet they won't take a nice Pit.
All the Pit rescues told me the same thing, after I had to call them 20 times to get a response "We're full, bye." I was stuck with this dog and nowhere to keep her, I lived in an apartment already with a foster dog, I could not keep that many dogs, it really left me in a bind. It annoys me that some of these rescues will keep a dog for years on end, I feel they're not publicizing enough, or maybe even they're being too choosey with homes, I don't know but it left me with no options. I got lucky and found someone to take her, but I still had to keep her for several weeks. I don't know what someone is supposed to do when they have a Pit Bull to rehome, nobody will take them.
A few years ago, I met one of their managing employees, she gave me her card. A couple weeks later, someone dumped a Pit Bull on me, and I was already maxed out on dogs and could not house this one, so I gave her a call. This Pit was about 40 pounds, adorable, leash trained, submissive, great with my dogs. I called PAWS and described her, the employees exact words to me were "No, we can't take her. Pit Bulls don't adopt out well." So I wrote that into a review I posted for them online, and was contacted by one of the owners, saying that was not true, they "take Pits all the time", and I should take down my review. Oh, sorry, forgot you take in 1 or 2 Pits for publicity? Liars. Maybe they would adopt out well if you educated people and told some of these yuppies not to stereotype breeds. If I would have called asking them to place a Doodle or a Yorkie I bet they would be like "come in now!"
I get training dogs from this shelter all the time, so I know they adopt out plenty of ill-behaved dogs, fear biters, even one that bit someone in the face! They called it a Shepherd Mix, the woman brings it in and it's a purebred Malinois. Yet they won't take a nice Pit.
All the Pit rescues told me the same thing, after I had to call them 20 times to get a response "We're full, bye." I was stuck with this dog and nowhere to keep her, I lived in an apartment already with a foster dog, I could not keep that many dogs, it really left me in a bind. It annoys me that some of these rescues will keep a dog for years on end, I feel they're not publicizing enough, or maybe even they're being too choosey with homes, I don't know but it left me with no options. I got lucky and found someone to take her, but I still had to keep her for several weeks. I don't know what someone is supposed to do when they have a Pit Bull to rehome, nobody will take them.
by NoCurs on 19 July 2010 - 01:07
I don't know what someone is supposed to do when they have a Pit Bull to rehome, nobody will take them.
As someone who has worshipped this breed for over 25 years all I can do is give you my opinion. If you are one of those (not you Doberdoodle, I mean the gen public) that gets a dog while in military, or can't figure out how to move with a dog, or decides to ditch dog because you got pregnant, or yadda yadda, in this day and age, with the APB breed, my best advice is take it to the local vet, look it in the eye, hold it in your arms and have it put down.
The chances of an adult pit bull being adopted by an APPROPRIATE home are slim to zero. Far too many dogs, far too few "bulldog worthy homes".
Why pitch the dog out there into a VERY hostile world to be kicked around from place to place? To think that a "great home" will be found for this breed, in this time, is about like winning the lottery. It does happen, heck, I've placed rescue pit bulls for 25 years, but never more than about one a year.
And, not to mention, these "new style rescue groups" almost always no NOTHING about temperament, and chances are if you find a dog, and it has a sketchy temperament, it will sit out its life in one of these places or be foisted off on someone because they believe "every home should have a dog". Well, I don't believe that, and I sure as hell don't believe every home should have a pit bull!!!! Very few are good enough ; )
If you find a stray pit bull, take it to a "reality based" shelter (i.e., not a no kill) and make sure it is scanned, and watch the ads in the papers. Sadly, many of the people who own fad breeds, like the pit bull today, treat them as disposable, and don't bother to look for them. They just get another pup from the neighbors down the block.
As someone who has worshipped this breed for over 25 years all I can do is give you my opinion. If you are one of those (not you Doberdoodle, I mean the gen public) that gets a dog while in military, or can't figure out how to move with a dog, or decides to ditch dog because you got pregnant, or yadda yadda, in this day and age, with the APB breed, my best advice is take it to the local vet, look it in the eye, hold it in your arms and have it put down.
The chances of an adult pit bull being adopted by an APPROPRIATE home are slim to zero. Far too many dogs, far too few "bulldog worthy homes".
Why pitch the dog out there into a VERY hostile world to be kicked around from place to place? To think that a "great home" will be found for this breed, in this time, is about like winning the lottery. It does happen, heck, I've placed rescue pit bulls for 25 years, but never more than about one a year.
And, not to mention, these "new style rescue groups" almost always no NOTHING about temperament, and chances are if you find a dog, and it has a sketchy temperament, it will sit out its life in one of these places or be foisted off on someone because they believe "every home should have a dog". Well, I don't believe that, and I sure as hell don't believe every home should have a pit bull!!!! Very few are good enough ; )
If you find a stray pit bull, take it to a "reality based" shelter (i.e., not a no kill) and make sure it is scanned, and watch the ads in the papers. Sadly, many of the people who own fad breeds, like the pit bull today, treat them as disposable, and don't bother to look for them. They just get another pup from the neighbors down the block.
by Doberdoodle on 19 July 2010 - 08:07
Yeah it can be tough, one Pit rescue I talked to had a couple that had been in foster for about 5 years, the difficulty was they had to go to only-dog homes, and they were now 7 years old. It's not that the foster homes are a bad place, it's that the dogs were taking up a space, so they were unable to accept more dogs into their rescue. Shame because the Pit I tried to give that rescue was great with other dogs and easy to own.
Some rescue people find dogs and DON'T follow protocal taking them to animal control to be held 5 days as stray, they don't care if an owner is looking, they just take them and adopt them out. I suppose it's based on the idea if you lost your dog you don't deserve to have it back.
Some rescue people find dogs and DON'T follow protocal taking them to animal control to be held 5 days as stray, they don't care if an owner is looking, they just take them and adopt them out. I suppose it's based on the idea if you lost your dog you don't deserve to have it back.
by BabyEagle4U on 19 July 2010 - 10:07
I dunno, this is a good question actually.
We have a couple spring runoff's pretty far into the mountains and alot of times I see deer who have apparently been hit and mangled on a highway somewhere or have been 1/2 ass shot and the hunter couldn't track .. I find sometimes at the waters edge with only their heads in the water.
With hunting this is common when you cannot aim with a clear shot, when a deer bleeds out they always go to die near waters if they make it there.
A few years ago on horseback I was about to cross the water when I found a husky type dog, this dog had no gun shots, no broken bones and no bleeding what so ever .. and was dead with it's head in the waters. It musta just died, because I could move every joint in it's body.
I dunno, I think they do know how and use water to do it ... if their in serious pain, deadly viruses, bleeding out or on their death bed. JMO.
I wouldn't think this for a happy, healthy dog though.
We have a couple spring runoff's pretty far into the mountains and alot of times I see deer who have apparently been hit and mangled on a highway somewhere or have been 1/2 ass shot and the hunter couldn't track .. I find sometimes at the waters edge with only their heads in the water.
With hunting this is common when you cannot aim with a clear shot, when a deer bleeds out they always go to die near waters if they make it there.
A few years ago on horseback I was about to cross the water when I found a husky type dog, this dog had no gun shots, no broken bones and no bleeding what so ever .. and was dead with it's head in the waters. It musta just died, because I could move every joint in it's body.
I dunno, I think they do know how and use water to do it ... if their in serious pain, deadly viruses, bleeding out or on their death bed. JMO.
I wouldn't think this for a happy, healthy dog though.
by GSDguy08 on 19 July 2010 - 14:07
BabyEagle4U, did you ever think the deer who were shot became too weak, and when trying to drink they couldn't keep their heads up any longer. A weak animal may give up anymore, because they lack the strength to keep going, but it's not to commit suicide, they just.....can't keep going.
by Two Moons on 19 July 2010 - 16:07
I've tracked a lot of shot deer, never seen one head for water.
Animals go to water if they can to drink nothing more.
An animal will sometimes go to water if poisoned.
The water thing just doesn't wash.
Animals go to water if they can to drink nothing more.
An animal will sometimes go to water if poisoned.
The water thing just doesn't wash.
by Myracle on 19 July 2010 - 16:07
Looking at it from a psuedo-scientific standpoint...
It has been posited on and off through the years that large sea mammals like dolphins and whales beach themselves in an act of suicide. I also believe that theory has been debunked.
Living beings have very strong self-preservation instincts. It goes against the #1 instinct of all creatures to kill itself.
In humans, suicide is overwhelmingly the result of untreated depression and other mental illness. The thought processes become so distorted that self-preservation is overwhelmed by the disease.
It would take some pretty significant disturbances to override an animal's sense of self-preservation, given that they are more instinctual than thinking creatures. Would an animal that developed the necessary brain dysfunctions necessary to enable suicide, propegate its genetics in the gene pool very effectively, or would those genetics be naturally limiting?
In the wild, I don't think you would see genetics that permit suicide being passed on. Nature selects against that sort of thing.
However, in animals like dogs that are domesticated, and have their lives artificially prolonged by human intervention, their breeding controlled almost exclusively by human intervention, their offspring rescued by human intervention if the dam rejects them, etc etc... in theory it would be *possible* to have an animal born without the basic sense of self-preservation, such that it could simply cease making an effort to live under certain stimuli, or otherwise become passively suicidal.
Could a dog actually kill itself by intentional placing itself in a fatal situation? I doubt it.
I doubt a dog has the ability to predict the outcome of any situation in which it has never been placed.
It has been posited on and off through the years that large sea mammals like dolphins and whales beach themselves in an act of suicide. I also believe that theory has been debunked.
Living beings have very strong self-preservation instincts. It goes against the #1 instinct of all creatures to kill itself.
In humans, suicide is overwhelmingly the result of untreated depression and other mental illness. The thought processes become so distorted that self-preservation is overwhelmed by the disease.
It would take some pretty significant disturbances to override an animal's sense of self-preservation, given that they are more instinctual than thinking creatures. Would an animal that developed the necessary brain dysfunctions necessary to enable suicide, propegate its genetics in the gene pool very effectively, or would those genetics be naturally limiting?
In the wild, I don't think you would see genetics that permit suicide being passed on. Nature selects against that sort of thing.
However, in animals like dogs that are domesticated, and have their lives artificially prolonged by human intervention, their breeding controlled almost exclusively by human intervention, their offspring rescued by human intervention if the dam rejects them, etc etc... in theory it would be *possible* to have an animal born without the basic sense of self-preservation, such that it could simply cease making an effort to live under certain stimuli, or otherwise become passively suicidal.
Could a dog actually kill itself by intentional placing itself in a fatal situation? I doubt it.
I doubt a dog has the ability to predict the outcome of any situation in which it has never been placed.
by Red Sable on 19 July 2010 - 16:07
Can they? yes, would they? NO.
by Two Moons on 19 July 2010 - 16:07
Can they? yes, would they? NO.
How do you suppose a dog would go about committing suicide?
Pills?
A rope?
A gun?
Running into traffic?
Do you really think they understand the concept?
I'm thinking Morphine drip would be nice.
How do you suppose a dog would go about committing suicide?
Pills?
A rope?
A gun?
Running into traffic?
Do you really think they understand the concept?
I'm thinking Morphine drip would be nice.
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top