by Hundmutter on 27 August 2021 - 02:08
Diamondgal pls believe me when I say that I have every sympathy with your position. Been there, got the T shirt, with coats n colours in GSDs. In our case there is less probable crossing-in of another breed somewhere to infiltrate the necessary genetics but there are still signs this had happened somewhere along the line. Our (UK) Kennel Club recently Registered an 'Isabella' GSD pup - now where did that come from [if not e.g. a 'silver' Labrador, or a Weimeraner ?]
But Kennel Clubs seem to care little about anything which would lead to them excluding income. If they are now happy to facilitate dodgy genetics (including using Working / Activity Registers to take fees for litters of labradoodles and puggles and cockerpoos - rather than just as a Register for those mongrels actually competing in some sport !) we've little likelihood of getting them to crack down on this sort of thing.
One of my bugbears for decades has been that greeders would produce large numbers of white or blue or liver GSD pups and sell them as 'rare' colours to the general public at inflated prices, and when these people collected their pups, never a word was said about the fact they were ineligible for the Show ring. The same applies for over-production of long coats, at the time when nobody took those into a Competition either. For the majority of purchasers this never mattered, they just wanted a pet they found pretty; but there were of course cases of some very disappointed owners, who had not bothered to research the breed before purchase, but then got the idea they had something special and wanted to Show it as 'a great specimen of its breed'.
Fortunately crossing-in anything not 'of the breed' takes some complicated subterfuge to continue purebred Registration and it does not need to happen often, just to get a colour allele circulating; and funny colours in Frenchies has certainly become established already !; so the overall damage to any breed's purity of lines probably isn't huge. Even for subsequent generations. Like I wrote earlier, main worry is that health problems may escalate a bit.
by mrdarcy on 27 August 2021 - 04:08
Hundmutter, you wrote" and when these people collected their pups, never a word was said about the fact they were ineligible for the Show ring. " not quite sure that's true any more. Believe if a dog is KCreg it is eligiblr to enter KC run shows but no self respecting judge would place it. If it were a superior specimen and better than all the correct coloured dogs then I believe it would be placed appropriately and ticket witheld. Used to be the breed standard/show ring, would disqualify an off colour but now they are not "banned".....anything goes!
I could be very wrong so don't quote me, lol.
by BRADY BEE on 27 August 2021 - 07:08
by Hundmutter on 27 August 2021 - 11:08
Welcome to my world, BradyBee. I made a rod for my own back by subscribing to the Breed Records Supplement - where the sheer numbers of pups produced by this 'magic circle' of coats & colours breeders shown up every quarter defies belief ! I got some quite abusive responses when I protested these 'breeding methods' on the White Shepherd forum here, oooooooh about a dozen years ago. And in the Epilepsy threds. Plus you should see some of the things being said on Facebook and elsewhere. Esp @ the moment about Frenchies' colours ! And our KC does zero about it.
MrDarcy that's an interesting point, I always thought it depended on the wording of the individual breed Standards but may be it is even looser these days; will have to study that a bit, I haven't really looked into it lately. Certainly in the (UK) context I used it, you could not show l/c GSDs or white/blue/liver ones, but how much that was prescribed by the Standard and how much it was possible but 'just not done' I'd have to check back, partly because long coats was a different issue, and so were white dogs, to the dilutes.
by BRADY BEE on 27 August 2021 - 13:08
Another 'breeder' exported a puppy ( liver) I think, to the USA and in return that 'breeder' sent one of theirs to the uk
They like to share it seems lol . Never in my 60 years of life have I seen an isabella gsd. Wtf is it lol a mixture of blue liver and white !! Give me strength lol
by mrdarcy on 27 August 2021 - 14:08
Here's a link to Isabella GSD try not to cry ladies, lol.
by BRADY BEE on 27 August 2021 - 15:08
by Hundmutter on 28 August 2021 - 03:08
Brady Bee I took to calling it a magic circle because as you have discovered, the majority of these breeders swap studs around between themselves and get brood bitches off each other to keep making sure they have the genetic coverage; they usually don't work or Show their dogs, so its a bit of a 'closed shop' that has little contact with other parts of the GSD community who go by the Standard.
You don't need all that, if you are aiming at the cute fluffy puppy market. Some are not part of it to start with, but they seem to mostly get drawn in as time goes by. Only exception is when some of them want some new blood to refresh they approach regular breeders - and some Show breeders oblige, because they don't look too hard at what studs thay are hiring out to which bitches. (It may well be going that way in Fr. Bulldogs too ...)
by BRADY BEE on 28 August 2021 - 04:08
by Hundmutter on 28 August 2021 - 08:08
But I have the knowledge and the experience and have had the opportunities - so I know what I'm dealing with. Trouble is most of these newbies, particularly pandemic panic buyers, don't.